It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:51 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Post subject: FM 25 vs. Super Champ XD
Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:43 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 10
I was playing on the Super Champ XD at Guitar Center and really liked the 14 setting. I play metal. I had been thinking of getting one, but read that the SCXD has the same amp settings as the FM25 and FM65?

So, are they pretty much the same, except that the Super Champ XD has tubes in the output?

Has anyone played both? Just wondering if the 14 setting sounds the same on the FM25 as it does on the Super Champ XD?

Reason is if setting 14 sounds the same, then I could get the FM 25 which has more watts, and is cheaper. That is really the only setting I really liked on the amp. And I really liked the effects.


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:09 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:14 pm
Posts: 305
The FM25R is a nice solid state amp that has a really nice clean channel but probably not a great amp for metal. The SCXD is a tube amp with digital effects. Solid state wattage does not equate to the same tube wattage. The SCXD has far more versatility and would probably better suit your needs. If your looking for a nice clean sound either will work well.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:12 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 10
l88vette wrote:
The FM25R is a nice solid state amp that has a really nice clean channel but probably not a great amp for metal. The SCXD is a tube amp with digital effects. Solid state wattage does not equate to the same tube wattage. The SCXD has far more versatility and would probably better suit your needs. If your looking for a nice clean sound either will work well.


I'm just interested in setting 14 on the amp. And the effects. I really like that amp setting on the Super Champ XD. I've read those amp settings are same for the FM25 as is the Super Champ XD. So, I was wondering if setting 14 sounds the same on the FM25? About the only difference I see if the Super Champ XD has a tube output, and probably a different speaker.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:22 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:01 am
Posts: 3
To start with, equating tube wattage with solid state is a mistake. My 40 watt tube amp is far louder than my 100 watt SS. Next, in the SCXD (I own one) you will get a far warmer, rounder sound be it clean or otherwise. To my mind there is no contest between the Frontman and the SCXD. The latter wins hands down.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:53 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 10
Again. I'm asking about setting 14 on the SCXD. Don't care about the other fifteen amp settings or clean.

Does the 14 amp setting on the SCXD sound the same as it's equivalent setting on the FM25? That is the only setting I will be playing. That preamp distortion is digital, so not really sure if having a tube in the output would really make much of a difference with regards to getting the SCXD or FM25. As the main thing I will be hearing is the digital distortion. Maybe for the clean, but again. I don't care about the clean. Only setting 14 on the SCXD.

Because if they sound the same, then it would be cheaper to get the FM25 as I'd only be playing that one setting.

I've heard that a tube amp is louder than an equivalent SS amp. I think I've read the reason why is a tube amp is under rated. So, it actually puts out more power than it is rated. Where as, SS amps only put out what it is rated at.

But then again, you also hear tube is better than SS any day. But I've played alot of tube amps that suck. Like the Peavey 5150.


Last edited by Unknown-Resistance on Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:59 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 10
l88vette wrote:
The FM25R is a nice solid state amp that has a really nice clean channel but probably not a great amp for metal. The SCXD is a tube amp with digital effects. Solid state wattage does not equate to the same tube wattage. The SCXD has far more versatility and would probably better suit your needs. If your looking for a nice clean sound either will work well.


The amp settings and effects for the SCXD are supposed to have been taken directly from the FM25. Plus on the FM25, they have a setting that says "Metal", so I don't see how that couldn't be used as a metal amp.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:06 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:17 pm
Posts: 1986
Unknown-Resistance wrote:
Again. I'm asking about setting 14 on the SCXD. Don't care about the other fifteen amp settings or clean.

Does the 14 amp setting on the SCXD sound the same as it's equivalent setting on the FM25? That is the only setting I will be playing. That preamp distortion is digital, so not really sure if having a tube in the output would really make much of a difference with regards to getting the SCXD or FM25. As the main thing I will be hearing is the digital distortion. Maybe for the clean, but again. I don't care about the clean. Only setting 14 on the SCXD.

Because if they sound the same, then it would be cheaper to get the FM25 as I'd only be playing that one setting.

I've heard that a tube amp is louder than an equivalent SS amp. But then I also hear that is a myth and what you are hearing is the tube makes more harmonics that you hear and perceive to be louder.

But then again, you also hear tube is better than SS any day. But I've played alot of tube amps that suck. Like the Peavey 5150.
You need to play tubes and solid state side by side to see, but they are deffinately louder.I have a 15 watt tube amp that will shake the windows, but my 60 watt ss amp that I had wouldnt.Its no myth.Put a twin reverb (100 watt tube ) against a 100 watt ss and see.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:13 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 10
budglo wrote:
Unknown-Resistance wrote:
Again. I'm asking about setting 14 on the SCXD. Don't care about the other fifteen amp settings or clean.

Does the 14 amp setting on the SCXD sound the same as it's equivalent setting on the FM25? That is the only setting I will be playing. That preamp distortion is digital, so not really sure if having a tube in the output would really make much of a difference with regards to getting the SCXD or FM25. As the main thing I will be hearing is the digital distortion. Maybe for the clean, but again. I don't care about the clean. Only setting 14 on the SCXD.

Because if they sound the same, then it would be cheaper to get the FM25 as I'd only be playing that one setting.

I've heard that a tube amp is louder than an equivalent SS amp. But then I also hear that is a myth and what you are hearing is the tube makes more harmonics that you hear and perceive to be louder.

But then again, you also hear tube is better than SS any day. But I've played alot of tube amps that suck. Like the Peavey 5150.
You need to play tubes and solid state side by side to see, but they are deffinately louder.I have a 15 watt tube amp that will shake the windows, but my 60 watt ss amp that I had wouldnt.Its no myth.Put a twin reverb (100 watt tube ) against a 100 watt ss and see.


I had edited my post. But I read the reason why tube amps appear to be louder is that they are under rated. Where as, SS can only go as loud as it is rated.

But anyways, the question was does the 14 setting on the SCXD sound the same as its equivelant setting on the FM25?


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:29 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:19 pm
Posts: 8827
Tube amps aren't underrated. There is a formula and tests to determine wattage. A watt is a watt. It's the way the sound is perceived by the ears. A tube amp can sound up to three times louder than a solid state amp.

Tube amps have always been rated at RMS but you don't always see that anymore. SS amps were rated in Music Power, Peak music Power or whatever they felt like calling it that week.

All I know is a tube amp will always smoke a SS amp in the power department if both amps are rated the same wattage. My 6 watt SF Champ sounds louder that my GDec 30 and a lot better too. It is what it is.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:56 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 10
63supro wrote:
Tube amps aren't underrated. There is a formula and tests to determine wattage. A watt is a watt. It's the way the sound is perceived by the ears. A tube amp can sound up to three times louder than a solid state amp.

Tube amps have always been rated at RMS but you don't always see that anymore. SS amps were rated in Music Power, Peak music Power or whatever they felt like calling it that week.

All I know is a tube amp will always smoke $@! amp in the power department if both amps are rated the same wattage. My 6 watt SF Champ sounds louder that my GDec 30 and a lot better too. It is what it is.


From what I've read, tube amps put out more power than they are rated. Which is peak power, because of the tubes. Where as an SS can only put out what it is rated. Though watts don't tell you how loud it is. Just the power.

I really didn't start this thread to debate SS and tubes. I played the SCXD and really like the 14 setting for metal. Didn't care for anything else. Then I found Fender had pulled the amp and effects settings from the FM25. The FM25 is alot cheaper. So, I was wanting to know if the 14 amp setting on the SCXD sounds the same as on its equivelant setting on the FM25?

Which what we are talking about is the preamp sound which is digital distortion. I'm thinking the output tubes on the SCXD have more affect on the sound when you are playing clean than with all the digital distortion.

I guess I could call Guitar Center ahead of time to see if they have the FM25 in so I can try them out for myself. If I go the other way out of town. I can get to a Guitar Center and Sam Ash that have demo rooms. So, I'll be able to crank them.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:18 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 2293
Location: Adirondacks
This may sound like a silly question...but, are you looking for volume or are you looking for straight tone? IMO you will get both from the SCXD...I have one and it cranks. If you want really loud and are not too concerned with tone...then the FM212 would be the way to go...JMO


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:38 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:19 pm
Posts: 8827
Tube powered guitar amps are not rated at peak power. It's rated at RMS root means square. Peak power is the power at clipping. Not really real world usage. RMS is used. They are NOT under rated. My Twin is rated at 100 watts RMS, 220 watts peak. 100 watts is it's usable rating. Tube amp tone is just more rich harmonically, so the ears perceive it as louder. SS amps just can't duplicate tube harmonics.
I don't want a debate either, but I don't believe your information is correct. A watt is a watt period.

Perceived loudness is a whole other thing. The more efficiently you move air, the louder your amp will sound.

Anyway you look at it, the SCXD is a superior amp the the FM25 in the tone and volume departments.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:57 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:49 pm
Posts: 3233
Location: Memphis
Hi Unknown, Welcome to the forums by the way.
In my opinion, I think you would be better off in the long run with the XD, In the tone department I think it is far and above the FM series.

But here the thing, if you were at GC test driving these things, what did you think??? Im not trying to be a $@!&#, but only you can decide what sounds best for you.
And just to get a rise... Tube Amps Rule!!!

Bill

_________________
Hey, Boy Blue is back!


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:00 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:14 pm
Posts: 305
I re-read your posts and I think we are talking about different amplifiers. The Frontman 25R does not have a "metal" setting but does have a drive channel. I believe you are talking about the FM25DSP amp which is not the same. When I first answered your post I was thinking of the Frontman 25R. I own an FM212DSP which is in the same family as the FM25DSP and it does indeed have a metal setting and is supposed to represent a Fender MetalHead amp just as the SCXD has. I would think those would be similar. If you are not interested in all the other features of the SCXD I would save the extra money and go with the FM25DSP. Tube tone may be less of a factor in metal, I don't play it so I can't say. Many music stores carry the larger FM212DSP or other FM-DSP amps so check out one of those if you can't find a 25 for similar effect. Fender markets the Frontman amps as a seperate series from the "FM" amps as evidenced by the products section here on the Fender website. Perhaps some metal guys can give you their opinion on the "DSP" amps. Good luck in your search.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:16 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 10
airbornestrat wrote:
This may sound like a silly question...but, are you looking for volume or are you looking for straight tone? IMO you will get both from the SCXD...I have one and it cranks. If you want really loud and are not too concerned with tone...then the FM212 would be the way to go...JMO


The main thing I was looking at is if the FM25 had the same "14" setting that is on the SCXD.

What I'll do is call around first to see if they have both. So, I can try out both and decide what I want to do.

Though, the SCXD would probably be the better way to go with the tubes on the output so it would probably crank up better than SS. If I can find the "14" setting on the FM25. And when I crank both, if they sound pretty much the same on that setting. Than I may get the FM25. As I only plan to use just the one setting. Maybe a clean here and there, but I don't really worry about the clean tone. As long as it is clean, than that is fine enough for me.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: