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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:24 pm
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Randy1 wrote:
I'm not sure why tube amps and SS amps cant co-exist. This idea that there must be one or the other makes no sense. I have owned some SS amps that I liked pretty well when I played more distorted power chord types of music. Now that my tastes have changed I wouldnt want anything but a tube amp for the types of music I play. I do have a Mashall Hybrid amp that I also like. It still has a preamp tube. There is a different feel that comes only from a tube amp. I will be suprised if $@! amp could ever duplicate it. As for the tube factories all going out of business and making tube amps obsolete? When the last factory closes its doors I will be looking for investors to go into business with me to start a new tube manufacturing facility.


Makes sense Randy. I own both types myself! :wink:


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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:34 pm
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Powdered Toast Man wrote:
Ok, here's my take:

I MUCH prefer my Super Reverb reissue over the new Line6 and similar modeling amps. Why?
1) Simplicity.
2) Sound.


I'm 50 and I own and use a PodX3 Live direct to the PA. Or I use a PodXt into an Atomic Reactor 18 watt EL84 amp; or I use a Princeton Reissue.

1. The PodX3 live provides the best live sound. I play for crowds of about 500-to-800. The PodX3 allows the sound tech to get the best mix for the entire house, plus everything we play is recorded and the PodX3 gives a great sound.

2. The PodXt into the Atomic Reactor amp "feels" great! Typically I keep the PodXt on a relatively clean amp selection and max out the Atomic Reactor to get that wonderful sponginess and tube-baking goodness that I crave.

3. The Princeton RI is great cause I can turn it on 10, run it through a 4X12 cabinet and get lots of sustain and grit without being too loud. And the tube rectifier & 6V6s provide a nice amount of sponginess that submits to my aggressive attacks; and the 4X12 cab tightens up the lows (no flabby bass for me, thank you).

4. I don't like the feel of playing all digital. It doesn't work with me; it doesn't cooperate or react to my "behavior" like a full tube amp; it sort of generates sound without "bending" or "responding" to my touch.

5. Sound is a different subject; it is subjective. Aren't there plenty of guitarists who swear by the solid state tone? Dime B. Darrell, for instance? Can anyone name some other excellent guitarists who use solid state?

Regards,
Clay


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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:39 pm
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teaching is a wonderful experience, it exposes you to many kinds of people. some learn and go onto doing great things, some average out, some make you wonder if they actual belong to hom-sapiens. in a side note, yesterday was the 150th year of Darwin's published "Origin of Species" manuscript (pub date: November 24th, 1859). the basic hypothesis is for the species to differentiate and flourish, a species adapts to its environment by the process of natural selection (adaptation to the environment as the species evolves and becomes successful at establishing itself as a life-form). which makes one wonder how humanity managed to do so well - that can be summed up in one phrase: by being smarter than the average bear.

that brings us to certain neanderthals that managed to escape extinction. they can still be found warming themselves on a cool winter night beside their toob amps. one has to admire their tenacity for survival but i fear it will not be long before mother nature dispenses with them into the dust bins of history as a species that gave it a try. we shall capture their their heroic memories in digital format, displayed on large format flat panel digital screens, and tell our grand chilren of their epic struggles for survival in a new and modern digital age over apple pie and ice cream. and we will remind our grand children to be smarter than the average bear, or neanderthal, as the case may be.

Ciao, baby,
johnny.


Last edited by johnny stecchino on Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:53 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:39 pm
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fhopkins wrote:
rholloman wrote:
fhopkins wrote:
I guess you'll do the same in front of the great SS amp. If they keep trying one day they may produce one that sounds just like a tube amp huh? :roll:
Ciao!! :wink:


Nope ... Mr Fhopkins .... I don't worship a piece equipment. Whether it be a tube, an amp, or anything. I was guilty of that at one time in my life (cars and motorcycles) but not anymore.

Now don't forget your 10 "hail tubes".

oh ... almost forgot,
Chow good buddy. :wink:


I don't worship any piece of equipment either good buddy but I believe you suggested that some posters (like myself) do, so a little tit for tat as they say. Kind of childish and demeaning towards someone with a different view don't you think?


Your own last sentence says it for you "Kind of childish and demeaning towards someone with a different view don't you think?"

Now you tube guys had to start something with your tube picture posts. Now you want to cry foul when it's thrown right back at you.

Again, you words "Kind of childish and demeaning towards someone with a different view don't you think?"

This thread was started to bring up ideas for future equipment. But you tube heads keep spewing out the same old tired song about how great thou tubes art.

I was wondering - do you guys feel threatened in some way by just talking about something that's better than tubes. It is out there already you know. And you can't stop it. And certainly not by trying to destroy every thread that talks about better things.

Again "Kind of childish and demeaning towards someone with a different view don't you think?"

Please, think about that for awhile.


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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:52 pm
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Quote:
that brings us to certain neanderthals that managed to escape extinction. they can still be found warming themselves on a cool winter night beside their toob amps. one has to admire their tenacity for survival but i fear it will not be long before mother nature dispenses with them into the dust bins of history as a species that gave it a try. we shall capture their their heroic memories in digital format, displayed on large format flat panel digital screens, and tell our grand chilren of their epic struggles for survival in a new and modern digital age over apple pie and ice cream. and we will remind our grand children to be smarter than the average bear, or neanderthal, as the case may be.


Now your just being rude... Im so sick of these pissing contests
Just enjoy your damn amps solid state or other, who really cares...

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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:55 pm
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i didn't appreciate the shot:
"I suppose if I were marketing support software for the Cyber Twin I would be pushing digital amps also."
so i might have got a little carried away returning the compliment, my apologies if it bugs you, the shot sure bugged me. and to the wisecrackers, please don't take shots at my italian background, i grew up saying ciao.

ciao & peace,
johnny.


Last edited by johnny stecchino on Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:16 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:00 pm
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rholloman wrote:
?????????? :shock:


Yeah .... yuk, yuk, yuk, ..... real funny guys :roll: :roll:

Now go over and bow down before your tubes and worship - chanting "I'm not worthy", "I'm not worthy". And then do 10 "hail tubes" and you will be absolved of ...... well ... something. :?

I believe you were the first to take it to that level. I did not post the tube picture or say anything about your SS amp love affair. My post was in jest. I did not know that it would hurt your feelings so. Sorry about that but your next post was condescending. As I stated above I own both types but prefer tubes. I do believe I have the right to my opinion as do you.
Seems like these this vs that threads always degenerates into a pissing contest and I'm not interested in playing that game. You believe what you want and I'll do the same. Hopefully your are mature enough to get over it because I know I am.
Not a smart remark but have a good evening and I'll do the same my friend. Hopefully! :) :wink:


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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:40 pm
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Well if you look at the title of the thread it was intended to get a strong reaction (which it did) as did the posters other threads.I personally get sick to death of these childish pissing contests .They serve no good purpose.You cant post inflammatory remarks and then complain about others .I believe the poster has some good information about some of the new stuff available, but when you insult differing views and taunt them, you just piss away any opportunity to teach others.It just makes you look like a jerk. :x


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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:14 pm
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i was hoping to get a strong reaction along lines that go something like this:

motivated by:
not enough innovation, i believe i am seeing seeing a step backward in guitar amp technology (that's accessible to us with not so deep pockets)

given that:
the technology (processors, software, a/d & d/a converters, pc's, mac's, and the net) have evolved spectacularly well, the technology exists to produce outstanding tone, incredibly flexible, low cost amps.

the expectation is:
amps with tone, flexibility, low cost, and connectivity to personal computers that can be used for recording, networking, and on-line product updating. in short, something well beyond the oridinary and usual, and a whole lot better for less.

want to avoid:
the usual defensive reaction from tube advocates.

hoping for:
creative players that are willing to be critical, demanding, out of the ordinary, willing to push manufacturers into new realms and demand the best for their bucks, not the usual nostalic stuff, to stand and be heard, what would you want?

ciao & peace,
johnny.


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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:46 am
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This is an interesting topic to me. I am a big advocate of digital processing and am first in line to adopt a new technology - when my limited pocketbook can keep up with it.

However, there is a reason that vacuum tube components haven't given way to extremely powerful processors. I guarantee you that even a modest Intel-based PC of today's technology would make a formidible music tool if it were harnessed in the right way. The memory and processing power of today's "budget" pc, if made into a dedicated tone/effects processing unit, would blow any Line6 POD or other modeling unit out of the water. The technology is here.

But people cling to their vacuum tube based amplifiers because there is something about music that requires that imperfection. Music is analog in nature, and an analog device best suits it. It doesn't matter how many thousands or even tens of thousands of samples per second a guitar's analog waveform is sliced, a digital effect is still an approximate reconstruction of an analog waveform.

That's why the CyberTwin and its kin sound as good as they do. They have that analog tube component to provide an imperfect, organic (if you will) tone. A vacuum tube just behaves different than a processing algorithm.

And that is my opinion, albeit a simple layman's understanding, of why tubes will not be put to pasture any time soon.

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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:50 am
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Im not sure why there has to be a choice.

I love my tube amps, but i also may be the only one who sometimes enjoys the ridiculous amounts of feedbackless low volume gain from a crappy Line 6 spider or something.

Ive just thought of it as a way to get a different sound.

Do all of you "solid state/digital only" players only use humbucking pickups? they are designed as an improvement over single coils... Or even further how about those Piezo-acoustic pickups by Roland or Line 6? those "in theory" are the worlds greatest pickups. In actuality you get a reaaaaaly nice sound out of single coils AND humbuckers AND modeling stuff...

just some more stuff to think about

Single Coils = Tubes
Humbuckers = SS
Piezo = tube modeling ss?

just an opinion

-Vince

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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:25 am
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johnny stecchino wrote:
i was hoping to get a strong reaction along lines that go something like this:

motivated by:
not enough innovation, i believe i am seeing seeing a step backward in guitar amp technology (that's accessible to us with not so deep pockets)

given that:
the technology (processors, software, a/d & d/a converters, pc's, mac's, and the net) have evolved spectacularly well, the technology exists to produce outstanding tone, incredibly flexible, low cost amps.

the expectation is:
amps with tone, flexibility, low cost, and connectivity to personal computers that can be used for recording, networking, and on-line product updating. in short, something well beyond the oridinary and usual, and a whole lot better for less.

want to avoid:
the usual defensive reaction from tube advocates.

hoping for:
creative players that are willing to be critical, demanding, out of the ordinary, willing to push manufacturers into new realms and demand the best for their bucks, not the usual nostalic stuff, to stand and be heard, what would you want?

ciao & peace,
johnny.
Johnny , I dont believe for a minute you wanted to avoid the"usual defensive reaction from tube advocates."If anything , you were probably counting on it to get interest in your topic.Refering to people who use tube amps as "neanderthals" is no way to open anyones mind to possibilities.If anything it just pisses away an opportunity to do so.I see the whole digital scene as an option, not a replacement.In 5-10 years we will see.


Last edited by budglo on Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:28 am
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Wow, theres alot of drama going on here.

Can i just say that arguments like this because once people select a side then when they realize that the side they picked has certain bad points that the other side does well, and of course it work round the other way. So to make up the deficiencies in their own amp they mock a certain bad aspect of the other side.

Let me use an example. Those on the solid state side will often call tube guys that they're, "Too closed minded, and cant see the light" or "Your amps sre too unreliable and fragile" And tube people will just mock the tone of solid state amps.

Both have bad points and good points, but really, you just have live with it until that perfect amp is made.

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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:59 am
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budglo wrote:
Well if you look at the title of the thread it was intended to get a strong reaction (which it did) as did the posters other threads.I personally get sick to death of these childish pissing contests .They serve no good purpose.You cant post inflammatory remarks and then complain about others .I believe the poster has some good information about some of the new stuff available, but when you insult differing views and taunt them, you just piss away any opportunity to teach others.It just makes you look like a jerk. :x
I've got to agree with that!!!!!!! :lol: Mike

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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:45 am
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IMHO, a solid state amp modeling a classic tube amp is like a Toyota Prius modeling the engine sound of a Ferrari V-12 (Which scientists are actually considering due to pedestrians not being able to hear the quiet hybrids, but I digress). Sure it sounds real, but you know it's not and it will never give you the same feeling. <___<

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