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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:51 pm
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for those who can't or won't deal with the question, bye (or rather go find your yourself another thread).

for all those with a genuine interest in a "modern" 21st century amp and what it should be, i would dearly love to exchange ideas with you.

ciao,
johnny.


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Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:55 am
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Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:12 am
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johnny stecchino wrote:
for those who can't or won't deal with the question, bye (or rather go find your yourself another thread).

for all those with a genuine interest in a "modern" 21st century amp and what it should be, i would dearly love to exchange ideas with you.

ciao,
johnny.


And Johnny that would be fine if your posts didn't engage in tube amp-bashing. New modern amps that take advantage of technology? Fine. Want to stick with your old tweed Champ? Fine as well.

My concern is that this thread, however it was started, has become a "tubes are bad, technology sucks" discussion that's no longer a discussion. Of course, you brought that on yourself by troll-baiting with the thread title - on a forum of a company who's made great tube amps and continues to do so.

Consider me checked out of this thread, and wishing Fender had a "ignore" posts from user" option like on a lot of the more pro sound sites.

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Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:33 am
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Hey all, here's my 2 cents, for what it's worth. I just pulled my new Fender Hot Rod Deluxe out of the box last evening, and hooked up my 97' Yankee Strat, and i am amazed at what i'm hearing, even at low volume! after playing through solid state amps since 69' when the closest i got to truly using a tube amp, was when i was doin' up lead vocals, sharing my friends fender vibrolux while he was layin' down his best the wind cries mary licks through the same speakers. I'm sure it will come as no surprise to the ones who know all about it, that i'm saying wow, instantly, i am hooked man, i've moved into a whole different realm here, and unless solid state amp technology can produce sound far superior to what i have been able to dial in already, even as a tube amp novice, i'll never go back! I already have my solid state amp up for sale! Can anyone point me to the NOS aisle please?! :wink:

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Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:26 pm
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Reply one: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Reply two: certainly no more than those taking swipes at what i like.

Reply three: I'm very happy for you. i suppose you have partially answered the question concerning tone. Have you tried the cyber twin se? curious.

tease of the day: ss/digital will prevail as will flat screen tv, as will cell phones, as will blu-ray media, and the countless digital things in supposed analog lives. :lol: see you in the funny papers.

ciao,
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Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:17 pm
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johnny stecchino wrote:
for all those with a genuine interest in a "modern" 21st century amp and what it should be, i would dearly love to exchange ideas with you..

I find this whole thing very amusing. When the benchmark for tone is vintage tube and SS/Digital is trying so hard to emulate that and even advertises that in many cases than which one really is the best "modern" amp? The one with true tube tone or the close but not quite there yet amp?
Ever here anyone say "Wow! This amp has that warm solid state tone." ?
I don't think so.


Last edited by YZFJOE on Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:07 pm
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A few years back I started gigging with some Line 6 gear, then I decided to upgraded my amp to a Cyber Deluxe. After 6 months or so I dropped that for a Cyber Twin SE. After a year with the Cyber Twin, I replaced it with a Hot Rod Deville. A year or so later and my newest purchase is a Egnater Rebel 30. Botton line...Egnater smokes all of 'em. I've tried the digital stuff, nothing compares to pure tube tone.


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Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:54 am
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Except that neither the Hotrod deville or Egnater amps are pure Valve tone.

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Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:05 am
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Say Nikininja, would you mind enlightening this lowly wretch of a tube amp nube currently breaking in my 1st tuber, a hot rod deluxe, (long winded enough?) of what "pure tube" is all about? Many thanks sir!

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Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:32 pm
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Dave first off let me say that I dont consider myself strictly on either side of this arguament. I find all 4 types (digital, solidstate, hybrid and all valve) amos have their uses and particular sound. I'm just not narrow minded enough to completely dismiss any type in favour of another. If you noticed my earlier comments on this thread theres plenty of pro's that know far more than either the valve amp or digital amp snobs posting here that use all types and no one would know the difference. Infact I'm utterly sick of such so called 'tone hounds' speaking from their posteriors. What people record with, what they use onstage and what is seen when using such amps onstage are often very different. I did it myself, A big amp company 30 miles from me, very generously gave me a 50 Top (like a plexi but with eq controls that work and more gain) to use. As soon as I found I couldnt have any other amp onstage, I used my old marshall mic'd up offstage. Until I got fed up of that and just used the Marshall. Consequently those very generous people asked for their amp back.

Modern valve amps whether they be from Fender, Marshall, Peavey, Egnater, Mesa or whoever use some form of solidstate technology. Whether that be diode clipping to acheive high gain sounds or solidstate valve rectification, its a solidstate set of components in the signal path. Hence true valve tone has gone out the window.
Heres a picture of the Hotrod Deluxe, note solidstate rectification, diode clipping and even microchips. Theres plenty going on that isnt valve related.
Image

By comparison heres a 57champ. No diode clipping and valve rectification. A incredibly simple circuit.
Image

It's the other side of the coin to someone plugging in a 12ax7/ecc83 driven overdrive pedal infront of their solidstate amp and claiming to have valve tone. It's not strictly valve tone or solidstate tone is it? The same could be said for hybrid amps like the Marshall Valvestate series. The drive channel on them amps is solidstate all the way. The single ecc83 acts on the clean channel only. How do I know, I took the valve out and plugged a guitar in to my old one. The gain channel didnt change at all, the clean channel wouldnt work at all. Yet everyone thought the gain channel was the purer valve tone.
I'm not saying anyone is better than the other. All I'm doing is pointing out the flaws in some peoples reasoning. If anything based on most usage of my own amps (I own all valve, hybrid and solidstate) I use Hybrid (marshall jcm) or Solidstate the most. My old point to point 51 year old all valve watkins (still with the original mullard valves in it. Forget NOS valves) hardly see's the light of day.

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Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:48 pm
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Nikininja, all i can say is wow! i now know tenfold what i did about the wide variety of components that can be combined in the heart of an amp, and unless i'm sorely mistaken, you having demonstrated that so well, sure seem to have proved an important point that some others here were trying to make as well, being, that far too many people are on here, arguing the age old debate about what's better, tube amps or solid state, with their opinions often based on so called "facts" that are totally incorrect in the first place. I'm amazed at what i saw "under the hood" in the picture you provided of a hot rod deluxe amp. I wonder just how long i may have imagined that my amp was pure valve all the way man! And i shudder to think of myself jumping on the, "my all tube technology" amp is better than all solid state amps bandwagon! Once again i am blessed by your true expertice. You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar! Thank you so very much, for sharing this valuable knowledge.

P.S. By the way, is that 57 champ in the 2nd picture you posted, one of the high end fender 57 series amps that are hand wired? and does that represent an example of all, or true, valve design? Thanks again! :wink:

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Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:05 pm
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Interesting discussion.Just out of curiosity,does that mean the Twin Reverb would not be an all valve amp due to the fact it has a solid state rectifier?Sorry if it sounds like a silly question.But in reality there is a chasm of difference between , say a hotrod deluxe and say a cyber twin which is digital and even a deluxe 112 which is solid state.I see them as 3 seperate technologies.I also personally dont see "point to point "as the holy grail in tone as some due.The only advantages I see is easier to work on and probably more durable.


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Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:22 pm
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Dave thats exactly my point. Its not what you use but the sound you make. Thats why we all got into this guitar playing thing. We wanted to make a noise, not brag over who has better hearing or who has what gear. I really am past the point of caring about how much stuff costs, amps like guitars are a sum of all their parts. You can have a $5K customshop Gilmour strat that sounds beautifull. If you play it everyday for 5 years without changing the strings ever, its going to sound rubbish isnt it? Likewise with amps, it can be point to point wired with vintage telefunken valves. If its not biased properly or the speaker is torn and from a battery powered pignose, its a fair bet its going to sound bad. Just like guitar, you can spend thousands on expensive guitars and by and large they are great. Occasionaly you find a cheap guitar that sounds tremendous though.
Like this guy (who incidently is using a digital amp)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/default.stm

I really dont care how amps are designed as long as their reliable, or what components they use. I care about how they sound and how I can use em.

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Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:17 pm
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btw, i played some tube amps last night, today. my impression: they sound good because they mask sour notes.

for the kind of discussions i'd like to engage in, as opposed to getting all sorts of flak from the anti ss/digital gang, see:

http://fender.com/promos/2010/ejamming/ ... 95K-2H8-v1

for glimpse of the future. that's what i'm talking about. as i recall, this was actually brought up here a while back. well, it seems someone is listening...

ciao,
johnny.


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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:56 am
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I'm surprized that this thread is still being bandied about,it just appears that the original poster has a dogmatic devotion to solid state amps and digital technology and all the arguing and factual information in the world won't sway it.I have solid state,hybred and strictly tube amps and use them all.I've been playing over 40 yrs and have found that no matter what, the tube amp has superior tone and a warmth that few solid state amps can achieve.Just about every hybred and solid state amp ad makes claims that their amp has "tubelike"tone or response so even they are admitting that tube amps are the benchmark against which all others are judged.

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