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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:31 am
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Joelski wrote:
To those who think the use of the term "troll" here is harmful to their well being, go so far as to call it a personal attack, what did you honestly expect? Proper analogies are "The guitar is centuries old and you idiots keep inventing new ways to keep it hanging around" or better yet: "The Stratocaster has been around for 56 years now and it's had a good run, but darnit, it's time the put it out to pasture!" Blasphemy you say? OF COURSE. That's how tube purists will look at the original post. That's the only way some of them will look at it. Excising something so crucial to the history of the generations that post here, not to mention the continued popularity margin is going to be viewed as infalmmatory and at best written off as a troll post intended to achieve no other purpose than to start arguments. Get over it; tubes aren't going away. The music industry has brought tube production back as a viable reason to continue making them since the Russia stepped into the age of transistors. Let's all just get back to talking about what we love: guitars, namely Strats and the way we do it without sneering at our forum member's choice of amplification, effects, other brands, etc..

Thanks. and Cheers!
Very well said...................... 8) Mike

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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:37 am
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Without getting involved in a argument about who's a troll. (personally I like Orc's, far more colourfull).

I wouldnt trust anything printed in any guitar magazine ever, particularly a readers poll. Guitar magazines have one agenda and it isnt to keep you informed as to the best gear. Their agenda is simply to advertise gear and make you pay for the privilege. Buying guitar mags? A mugs game.
The other reason I wouldnt trust a readers poll is that the majority of readers who respond to such things are morons with nothing better to do. I certainly dont see popularity as a qualification for good sound. Look at the blues junior for proof, what a case of the emperor's new clothes that amp is. Theres not a good sound in the thing just that weak ever wonky graininess that seems inherant to el84's in class A/B with added diode clipping.

Which brings me to my other point. Anyone touting the superiority of valves over analogue better make sure their amp wasnt made after 78 and doesnt have a master volume control. If they do the likelyhood of the preamp gain being diode clipped is very high. Which brings that amp firmly into the hybrid category in my view. The preamp is dependant on solidstate/analogue technology. Then we look at rectifiers, what valve does yours use? Oh wait the majority of rectifiers are solidstate these days.

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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:38 am
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cherokee747 wrote:
Joelski wrote:
To those who think the use of the term "troll" here is harmful to their well being, go so far as to call it a personal attack, what did you honestly expect? Proper analogies are "The guitar is centuries old and you idiots keep inventing new ways to keep it hanging around" or better yet: "The Stratocaster has been around for 56 years now and it's had a good run, but darnit, it's time the put it out to pasture!" Blasphemy you say? OF COURSE. That's how tube purists will look at the original post. That's the only way some of them will look at it. Excising something so crucial to the history of the generations that post here, not to mention the continued popularity margin is going to be viewed as infalmmatory and at best written off as a troll post intended to achieve no other purpose than to start arguments. Get over it; tubes aren't going away. The music industry has brought tube production back as a viable reason to continue making them since the Russia stepped into the age of transistors. Let's all just get back to talking about what we love: guitars, namely Strats and the way we do it without sneering at our forum member's choice of amplification, effects, other brands, etc..

Thanks. and Cheers!
Very well said...................... 8) Mike


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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:11 am
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Joelski wrote:
To those who think the use of the term "troll" here is harmful to their well being, go so far as to call it a personal attack, what did you honestly expect? Proper analogies are "The guitar is centuries old and you idiots keep inventing new ways to keep it hanging around" or better yet: "The Stratocaster has been around for 56 years now and it's had a good run, but darnit, it's time the put it out to pasture!" Blasphemy you say? OF COURSE. That's how tube purists will look at the original post. That's the only way some of them will look at it. Excising something so crucial to the history of the generations that post here, not to mention the continued popularity margin is going to be viewed as infalmmatory and at best written off as a troll post intended to achieve no other purpose than to start arguments. Get over it; tubes aren't going away. The music industry has brought tube production back as a viable reason to continue making them since the Russia stepped into the age of transistors. Let's all just get back to talking about what we love: guitars, namely Strats and the way we do it without sneering at our forum member's choice of amplification, effects, other brands, etc..

Thanks. and Cheers!
I agree,but some people use inflammatory posts to try to further their arguement.But thats the only way they can keep this thread going.Otherwise this thread would be long forgotten.


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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:20 am
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i see attlia and the tubies gathering around the campfire. hmmm, sounds like a great name for a grunge band, attila and the tubies. now don't run off and get offended, just the old guy having some fun...

analogies? are you kidding??? when do "amps" become analogous to "guitars"??? btw, there is another forum dedicated to strats. this one is about "modern amps". focus on "modern" for a moment and try to appreciate the century we're living in.

inflamatory? depends on the reader's point of view. the idea was to stimulate an interesting conversation going forward, not looking backward, think about that for a moment too.

ciao,
johnny.


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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:07 am
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Yeah, total WEAK SAUCE. You obviously don't get it. Not gonna feed ya any more. Have fun!

BTW: The only classic by the definition of this forum's topic heading is the Marshall. Pretty sure they all sport modern technology. Whoa! CLUEBOMB! Watch out!!!

CIAO


johnny stecchino wrote:
i see attlia and the tubies gathering around the campfire. hmmm, sounds like a great name for a grunge band, attila and the tubies. now don't run off and get offended, just the old guy having some fun...

analogies? are you kidding??? when do "amps" become analogous to "guitars"??? btw, there is another forum dedicated to strats. this one is about "modern amps". focus on "modern" for a moment and try to appreciate the century we're living in.

inflamatory? depends on the reader's point of view. the idea was to stimulate an interesting conversation going forward, not looking backward, think about that for a moment too.

ciao,
johnny.

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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:58 pm
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Hi Nikininja,although I agree with a lot of what you said I can't say that I see eye to eye with your opinion or the Blues Jr.A couple of weeks ago when I was shopping for a new guitar I was prepared to spend as much as $2,500 for a guitar and tried several Strats MIA MIJ and MIM through a Limited Edition Blonde Blues Jr. When I tried the Jimmy Vaughn Strat Through it I was amazed by the sound that the pairing made,they brought out the best in each other.Since then I've tried several guitars through the B.J. and have found it to be an exemplary little amp.Over the years I've owned and played dozens of amps and I find the Blues Jr. to be among the best of the low wattage amps I've played through.Of course as Martian so well puts it YMMV.BTW when I bought the package I ended up paying far less than the $2,500 that I had allowed for.

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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:40 am
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Isn't this pretty much a non-issue? People lke what they like. If I say I think my Super Champ XD is the best sounding amp ever, who the hell are you to tell me I'm wrong? Or if I said the same thing about a G-Dec, or a Kay, or a Marshall SS 15 watt practice amp, or anything else?
To answer the OP's question, no, as long as there are those who prefer tubes, tube amps are not going away. And to imply that they are old fogies who are resistant to change is non-productive, and highly ignorant as well.


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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:13 am
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guitslinger wrote:
Hi Nikininja,although I agree with a lot of what you said I can't say that I see eye to eye with your opinion or the Blues Jr.A couple of weeks ago when I was shopping for a new guitar I was prepared to spend as much as $2,500 for a guitar and tried several Strats MIA MIJ and MIM through a Limited Edition Blonde Blues Jr. When I tried the Jimmy Vaughn Strat Through it I was amazed by the sound that the pairing made,they brought out the best in each other.Since then I've tried several guitars through the B.J. and have found it to be an exemplary little amp.Over the years I've owned and played dozens of amps and I find the Blues Jr. to be among the best of the low wattage amps I've played through.Of course as Martian so well puts it YMMV.BTW when I bought the package I ended up paying far less than the $2,500 that I had allowed for.


My experiences of it are completely different. 15watts is a nonsense power rating either way, too loud for home, too quiet for any live room whether it be studio or gig. The reverb is poor, as is the tonestack. And thats coming from a marshall devotee, marshall are notorious one sound amps and the more you turn em up the less responsive the controls get. My main bone of contention with the blues jr is the drive. Getting the gain down on them is a feat only performed by I suspect a better class of old testement prophet. The mids are horrible and the fatboost only makes the problem worse.
In short I hated the thing, I played it 15 odd times in a year, it made a good coffeetable in the rehearsall room. Before I sold it I offered it to a forum member for £150, £70 less than I'd paid for it. I ended up selling it on ebay for £230 and felt guilty for taking the guys money. I tried everything to get a usable sound out of it. I put 6 different speakers in it, all out of old proven cabs. I tried Bilm's tonestack mods, tried changing the valves. Nothing got that amp sounding good.
I'd prefer a old Squier amp to another one of those. I suppose I should be a little kinder to the thing as it did do me some good. It hammered home the lesson of not trusting anyone elses judgment but my own.

If you like yours thats all well and good, no one can tell you different or that you shouldnt like it. It is the one amp out of fender that really draws a dividing line though. People either love it or hate it, theres no grey area.

If you really want to read my harsh views on a amp ask me about bogner or vox. Their my two pet hates that I just wont be dissuaded over. I'm practicaly in love with the blues jr by comparison to how I feel about the uberschall or AC30

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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:18 pm
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blues bondsman wrote:
Point in fact.
Guitar player magazine (this months) May 2010

Readers poll

What technology is in the amp you take on gigs

74.27 % Tubes

9.36% Digital Modeling

9.12 % Analog Solid State

5.15 % Hybrid Analog/Digital

2.11 % Laptop W/ Modeling software


I've criticized many polls & you certainly can't live & die by polls. Sometimes the results do seem to be in the ballpark. Strangely, the poll results quoted above are not too far away from what we are seeing people post in this topic.
There is a healthy boutique amp market out there that is selling tube amps, & they are surviving. (Dr. Z, Carr, Egnater etc. etc.)
Of course the standard in beautiful clean sound is still & probably always will be an old tube amp from Fender.


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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:58 pm
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people like what they like. the ss/digital crowd isn't telling anyone what they ought to like. so if the rhetoric can be left in check, the question remains: what do you want from a MODERN, 21st century ss/digital amp? We'll assume such modern amps equal or better tube amps for the music you are into. Remark: in some circles, ss/digital amps might be considered as tonally superior (see above poll).

ciao,
johnny.


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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:21 pm
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This is futile. Does anyone on one side or the other really believe that they are going to change the person on the opposite side's opinion!!
Answer__ NO!! :wink: There is nothing you can say that hasn't been said!!
Part of a Beatles song!! :)


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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:55 pm
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fhopkins -
Agreed.
It's been entertaining & amusing.
Time to let this thread die. It's outlived its' usefullness & I won't feed it anymore.


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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:54 pm
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I agree, time to shut down. It's devolved from constructive dialog to something less than pretty.

Also on other gear-based forums, it's strongly discouraged for those with financial gain to espouse their views to sway people one way or another.

I think a good rule of thumb is this (taken from srforums.prosoundweb.com)
"If you work for a manufacturer or a rep firm, you may not start a thread for the purposes of promoting a product. In fact, regarding your own products, the rule of thumb is "speak only when spoken to" meaning feel free to answer questions in an objective fashion. Tech support is always welcome."

Based on that, Johnny is operating in a gray area at best, given that he benefits from software for the Cyber Twin, which is not a tube amp per se. I have nothing against Johnny and I think that for Cyber Twin users, his software is potentially a great tool. however, that logic means that Axe FX could join and tell everyone to dump their Fenders for their products. Rules are good, but they need to be consistent.

Fender - please consider shutting this thread down, and consider adopting some of the forum rules such as above.

Thanks.

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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:17 pm
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Seems the length of this thread speaks for itself. Folks have certain ideas about guitar amps. Just wondering if we could focus on Johnny's question, "What do we want from a MODERN........Amp?" Btw Nik, Tonequest is a fairly non biased publication, or at least it used to be, haven't seen one for years. Hey Nik, I'd like to hear your opinions and experiences with the Vox amps on another thread, don't think it would bore anyone around here. Art

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