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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:51 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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well, i have had mine for while now, can no longer recall what i paid for it. i bought it for two reasons: it sounded real good and it was very reliable. i also discovered boss pedals really work well the jc-120, and i mean really well. still sounds good, is still extremely reliable. i keep it because... i dunno.

it's a simple amp, designed well before it was practical to include things digital. things digital in guitar amps are really 21st century things. the jc-120 is an old, old design. why $1.2K? I dunno, but they seem to sell.

btw, all jc's have the best chorus on the market. fender has the best reverb on the market. that's the way it is.

a jc-120 21st century version, now discontinued, was the vga-7. this was a very, very impressive amp as well. in addition to amp modelling, it was capable of guitar modelling if you used the GK pickup. it's draw back: steep learning curve, like the cyber twin, and no chance of programming it with something like cyber commander. another fabulous modeling amp was the Yamaha DG-120 - Yamaha was first to pioneer rotating knobs. the dg had great tones, unfortunately was also discontinued. at the time, i was considering these. the cyber twin won me over because... loyalty, some good tones, and i saw real potential in the amp to go beyond the "patches", use in a studio under computer control.

my contention: the achilles heel of the digital modeling amps was the lack of support and good pc-based software. and then there's the generation thing and komputer phobia. at least these mistakes are not being repeated with the G-DECs, and they are selling well by all accounts to the younger generation.

such blazing logic: [maybe it sounds good because it's not digital] is best countered by similar and pointless logic: [maybe it sounds good because it has no tubes]. how juvenile.

ciao,
johnny.


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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:30 am
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Johnny,I have the Gdec15 and I cant really get good sounds out of it.This is the reason that digital is a hard sell.I bought it for practicing my chops at home, but if Iam to be sold on digital,this would have been a good opportunity for Fender.If it would have had some descent tones out of the box, I would have been clamoring for more.Since it didnt,its gonna be a hard sell.Thats just marketing 101.


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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:32 pm
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agree about the G-DECs, they have a way to go. on the other hand, they offer a lot for the price, and they are innovative. they don't compare to a cyber twin by a long shot.

the previous gear i mentioned was pro gear, the VGA-7 & DG-120. these sounded great. prices were pro-grade too.

i am hoping Moore's law kicks-in, doubling the capability, halving the price every 18 months or so. for non-engineering crowd: Moore was a co-founder of Intel (the pentium processor guys) and carver Mead, a caltech prof, named the "law" after moore, which really is an an observation of the digital industry's capability to innovate and give us the tremendous advances (in just about everything digital, and ss in general) that we have to today. given moore's law is based on actual observation (maybe a self-fulling prophecy), i am hoping same happens to guitar amps.

so if g-dec is the start, and moore's law is observed, maybe in a few years... something really great? actually we have something pretty good already, the cyber twin. for now, we should at least made our voices heard and we need to push the envelope of guitar amps go.

ciao,
johnny.


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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:19 pm
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I think Johnny's desire to spearhead the technological advancement of higher quality solid state amps is admirable. Both modern solid state circuitry as well as valve driven amplifiers have come a long way. I don't see why we must choose one over the other though. There is room for both, and not only that, more advancements in directions that we have yet to even dream of. The whole reason for having musical equipment is not to die with the most toys but to study and create music. In the end it isn't about what you have but how you play it.

That said--nothing quacks like hot valves 8)

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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:49 pm
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You guys (pro-tube and otherwise) will probably enjoy this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc-78AKIo5A

Anthony put together a series of videos explaining tube amps. This may not change anyone's mind, but he did a great job on the videos.


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Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:48 am
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the problem with tubes/tube technology is that they do one thing: amplify, and when over driven, distort. as a capability, it's the one and only thing of focus. as a technology, the size, weight, power, cost, fragility, self-destructive heat, mechanical sensitivity and so on, pretty well limit the technology. all the technical advances are done, i very much doubt you will ever see any new technical advances with amplification tubes.

ss, particularly digital stuff, has been following Moore's law - a geometric growth in technical advances&capabilities. all this incredible technology exists today; however, very, very little of it has found its way into guitar amps. that's essentially my message.

the forum's name is "modern guitar amps", well about the only thing that's modern (except for the G-DECs and Cyber Twins) is the date of manufacture. that is my whole point: let's exploit the existing modern technology that's out there and use them to create real "modern" guitar amps.

i saw the videos. for those who don't know how to use tube amps to control and setup distortion, it's a great instructional video. but note my point again: it's the only thing of focus.

ciao,
johnny.


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Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:03 pm
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Yeah, I have no problem with the advancement of solid state amps. In my experience there is a difference in tone between the two and I prefer tube amps, but I certainly don't snub my nose at solid state amps. I've played plenty of ss amps that sound good and most are certainly more versatile from what I have seen.


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Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:11 am
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having been a player for 35 years and having tried out MANY tube and solid state amps I can say there is definitely a difference in tone, particularly in warmth and compression that I find more appealing in the tube amps. For years I tried finding "the" distortion I'd been hearing in my head with solid state amps but could never find it then found it with tube amps. I do like the combination of solid state electronics with a tube amp for modeling and effects and think Fender has done well in that regard. I still vote for tube amp tone in the end. It just sounds better to my ears.

I would LOVE to see a G-DEC amp with tubes. I think that would be a marriage made in heaven. I've got the Super Champ XD and it has a 12AX7 preamp tube and two 6V6 power tubes and it sounds great when the 'rattle' is absent (think it's a bad tube)


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Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:36 pm
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Your oh so right Johnny, they do one thing, hardly a "problem"
they make sweet tube tone that is pleasing to the ear.

If it aint broke why waste all that time trying to fix it.

Using words like "problem" when discussing tube tone show that your trying to manipulate with words and push your agenda.

Its only a problem for those selling ss amps or programs for them.

Tube tone is better sounding, the years have proved it out.

We have a political leader here in our country that wants everyone to believe there is a "problem" that needs to be fixed and right now.

I should say a wagon full of problems.

The only real problem is his agenda.

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Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:44 am
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Has anyone else noticed that musical instruments seem to be the only industry going backwards in technology? :D

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Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:03 pm
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The musical industry is supplying tools used by artists.

As a business they would prefer to make a profit, so they make products to meet demand. Sometimes based the most modern technology, sometimes old technology, sometimes a blend. The artist demands what they want so they can perform. In my case not that well.

Painters use paint and canvas.
Sculpters use marble, granit, bronze, hammers, chisels.

It is up to the artist, and every one who plays guitar is an artist.


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Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:50 pm
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I did the next best thing. I have the Fender Superchamp XD. It has true tube tone, but with those DSP amp models, I can achieve the best of both worlds. My next amp? Fender Deluxe VM.... Now that's the stuff!

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Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:29 pm
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oh blues bondsman,

would you happen to be a troll by chance???

let's see how that fits.

ciao baby,
johnny.


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Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:01 am
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Just my opinion, but it sounds to me like the OP has issues getting his hands on decent stuff. Granted, there is some nice solid state hardware out there and I own and play with some if that stuff. I still don't think that ss is anywhere close to being able to provide the harmonics and tones that valve amps are capapble of effortlessly producing by order of their nature. If that makes me a caveman in the OP's opinion, well I guess that's just a bunch of sour grapes. There are some ss units that can challenge the lower-end tube amps for tone, but comparing apples to apples, that price range will put you into some darn nice old school amps that have way more feel, responsiveness and glassy tone than a circuit box will ever be able to fake. As always, YMMV. Cheers.

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Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:56 am
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I have a Vox AD30VT solidstate hybrid. It puts a pre-amp tube in the solid state power section to 'color' the tone. I played on this amp for years, most often using the setting in the amp modeller for "Black 212" which is supposed to emulate the Fender cleans of a black 212 silverface. I loved this patch as it has great tone for a solid state.

I recently bought a 7 year old used Fender Deville 212, simular to the amp that my vox emulates. The real thing is no comparison. Light years beyond the emulated tone, even with 7 year old tubes.

I have played a Deluxe VM and I really like the tone to that. It's a full tube amp with digital effects, so it's still got that tone. I think that amp is a peek at the true future of solid state, being intigrated successfully into full tube amps. Solid state by itself just sounds flat and lifeless to me.

My hybrid sounded much better than my solid state, and my tube amp now sounds much better than my hybrid. Just the way my ears hear it.


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