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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:52 pm
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fhopkins wrote:
PTP!!! :P
JK!!!! I'm not here!! :wink:


Ah but mate your biased. Youknow if anyone has a preferance for any kind of amp, you can usualy find something within that type to discredit all their notions on why said type is better than anything else. Look at my experiences of the blues jr. Right price, right setup, completely the wrong sound. I bought pretty much unheard, it was kept so quiet when I tried it out. Was I glad when that thing left me, I was grinning like a cheshire cat. Yet there are people that love em, who am I to say their wrong. Its a tool, if you can put it to use all else is of no consequence what so ever.

Zontar wrote:
But most people aren't caring what you play through, but how it all sounded together--the whole band, duo or you guitar & voice or whatever.


Theres the absolute truth of gear usage. It has to work well with the band and expect no thanks for having it do so. Its a part of your toolkit, a tool for your job, nothing more. I once had a drummer say 'that sounded great', a singer once said 'that sounds bloody meaty'. I've had a couple of people say 'nice solo', I've never had anyone say 'nice amp/pedal/guitar'.

I was looking at some local band on youtube earlier, then went on to look at their website. They made a point of listing all the expensive gear they used. I couldnt figure how they got such a bad live sound with such equiptment.

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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:06 pm
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I wish I had the Watkins you sold! I don't know why but I thought it was cool! I sold my Blues Jr. too!! :wink:


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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:11 pm
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Heres my set up.

The "tone" by the way is more for me than the listeners, I being an educated (in tone) guy liten carefully to every player I spend money to hear, so that I can see what they have in terms of tone sweetness and I pay close attention to their gear too.

The C/T's are fun and have gobs of cool sounds, however they cannot match a tube circuits ability to create an organic liquid pleasing to the ear tone.

I am sure with the ability to get into the program you can fine tune some sounds, but, you would have to show me a side by side comparison of it and the real deal to get me back to the C/T as a main source of amplification.
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m467 ... 0_3740.jpg

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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:19 pm
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trying for the picture again ???

Image

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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:25 pm
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I've still got it mate. In the end I couldnt swap it for the bluesbreaker combo and the guys JTM and Plexi heads had sold the week before I arrived.
I figured the guy offered me £400 for it, I bought the thing for £140 not nine months earlier. May as well keep it and see how it rises over the next ten years or so. I'll dust it off and take it to another collector in a few years, see what they offer for it.

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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:43 pm
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Niki, I have been saying all along that there is no real advantage to point to point other than its easier to work on.Get someone who swears the point to point vintage amps sound way better than a reissue (and they do sound better,but its due to the values drifting and a well broken in speaker) and they dismiss the reissues because they have a pcb.I would love to put a reissue side by side with a point to point amp with brand new components and hear the difference.Bluesbondman,isnt the DRRI one sweet sounding amp?I have had quite a few amps and was looking for a smaller amp to replace my blues jr for smaller venues.I was playing the larger clubs with my 59 Bassman ri .Upon Supros recommendation I tried one and loved it.Since I bought it ,even my Bassman sits in the closet these days.I play all my gigs with the drri. As far as the digital stuff, its things like tube compression that cant be replicated on digital as good.Not to say that day wont come,but as for now it hasnt arrived.I am a meat and potatoes kind of guy as far as tone goes.I dont need alot of different tones to cover as in a cover band .To the guys that need that, I can see where the CT is a great thing.


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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:21 pm
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budglo wrote:
Niki, I have been saying all along that there is no real advantage to point to point other than its easier to work on.Get someone who swears the point to point vintage amps sound way better than a reissue (and they do sound better,but its due to the values drifting and a well broken in speaker) and they dismiss the reissues because they have a pcb.I would love to put a reissue side by side with a point to point amp with brand new components and hear the difference.


Absolutely most people (musicians included) cant hear the difference between a valve amp and straight to desk recording of guitars. I'm not talking of recent recordings either. It's been going on right back to the 70's as far as I can determine. I can understand guitarists not liking solidstate stuff because it doesnt respond the same way that valve stuff does, and viceversa when their playing it. I just dont buy into the hear the difference factor on someone elses recordings. I've got recordings that someone swore was my jcm, because they knew I liked em and have used em for years. It was a slide guitar piece through a boss turbo overdrive straight into the desk and a mesa mk4 doing the rhythm guitar. People formulate notions in their head (I'm guilty of it too) and it quickly becomes their reality. (Buddhists believe that with our thoughts we change the world, well buddhists theres your truth). That gets spread around and because it seems feasible or probable and a lot of people accept it, it becomes the truth. The differences between valve manufacturers is the other current one I'm waiting for everyone to wake up from. Ooh I changed one preamp valve in my amp and now it sounds so much better. It makes me laugh. People cant see that you cant attribute that (if any) change down to who made the valve. Theres more valve factories than I initialy thought but their largely all eastern made in the guitar world. JJ are the exception and in truth I hear not one scrap of difference between them and any other eastern manufacturer that couldnt be attributed to something else, like the old valve going under.


budglo wrote:
I am a meat and potatoes kind of guy as far as tone goes.I dont need alot of different tones to cover as in a cover band .To the guys that need that, I can see where the CT is a great thing.

As am I, a single channel master volume amp for me. Yet I play a hell of a lot of covers being in a newly formed band. Its all down to your ability to make the tools your comfortable with work for you.

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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:23 pm
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The DRRI is the # one for me.

I've owned nearly every vintage fender out there or had them in for repairs.

I have bands travel from all over the midwest to buy amps from me, not one time did I have someone come get a ss amp, allways have to e-bay them to get rid of them.

Now that being said, this topic has two types of people here, complete tone freaks like myself and then the other guys, musicians looking for the best bang for the buck, i sure am glad there are cheaper less desirable amps out there and SS amps for those in which dependability means everything.

for me seeking the ultimate texture and harmonics from each note is where its at, tube amps are the one and only way I have found to come close to finding it.

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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:46 pm
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point to point. i can't resist debunking this one. and i'll probably draw fire, well, not the first time i've been shot at.

modern weapons, smart munitions fired from a canon, or a missile release, modern electronic gear on a gunship subject to a constant rate of fire, guess what's inside? p2p? maybe in WWII.

today's weapons have much more energy, higher rates of fire, electronics that need to operate after a 20,000g shock (electronics like a GPS in a smart canon shell), are all built on hardened printed wiring boards, all with ss components. these components are epoxied after the soldering process for additional strength. not one "p2p" circuit i know of.

and to rub some salt: tubes could never survive this kind of environment, so no tubes. there is one advantage tubes have over ss: natural nuclear radiation blast hardening. with shielding, hardened ss processes, etc, ss is up to tube levels and beyond for hardening.

now guess what you can't afford, and some of it at any price. so a reasonable, effective, and AFFORDABLE compromise are the electronic assemblies we have today.

btw, the electrical signals traveling in the circuitry don't really know about p2p, they only know maxwell's equations. for the unintiated, maxwell's equations (and derivates there from such as Poynting's vector equations) describe signal and energy propagation. these equations are universal and describe the physics. they do not depend on p2p or pwb. they simply are. the point: you'll never hear the diff.

p2p. gimme a break.

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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:11 am
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I must agree, my DRRI with its printed circuit board sounds as good as any of the PTP early fender amps I own or have owned.

Maybe even better ???

Still can't buy the idea of digital coming close to an analog tube circuit for tone.

By the way if an emp were to go off in our country, the only thing still working would be a tube circuit.

Since were talking warfare here.

Tubes certainly saw plenty of time in battle far beyond WWII by the way.

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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:35 am
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This is a great thread guys, very thoughtful and useful. My take, to use the car analogy, is that a guitar player is the driver, the listener is the passenger. The passenger knows he gets to the destination in a big hurry wether it's a 65 Vette or a 2010 Audi, but the driver is having a totally different experience with each car. For me the dynamic feel of the tubes is just more fulfilling than the less dynamic feel of SS.


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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:39 pm
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Grant1 wrote:
This is a great thread guys, very thoughtful and useful. My take, to use the car analogy, is that a guitar player is the driver, the listener is the passenger. The passenger knows he gets to the destination in a big hurry wether it's a 65 Vette or a 2010 Audi, but the driver is having a totally different experience with each car. For me the dynamic feel of the tubes is just more fulfilling than the less dynamic feel of SS.


Grant that is a great analogy. Cept that solid state is no less dynamic than valve, if anything its more dynamic and a purer sound thanks to its lack of compression.
Just different tools for different jobs. You wouldnt drive a schoolbus onto a battlefield, you wouldnt drive schoolkids home in a sherman tank.

I honestly prefer valve amps, but I much prefer truth over common misconception. Take Knopfler what most people assume to be the classic fender clean tone of the first Dire Straits album is actually this
Image The solidstate roland Jazz Chorus.
The second album was recorded guitar>cheap compressor>mixing desk. Hence my skepticism when people claim their tone hounds or can instantly hear the difference. They've obviously no experience of recording guitar at any serious level. No one believed Diamond Darrell ever recorded Pantera's albums with a solidstate amp. He reckons valves were utter rubbish for any serious amount of gain. Marshall, Fender, Peavey, Mesa and just about any other high gain amp manufacturer agreed with him by putting diode clipping in their highgain amps.

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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:20 am
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i know that amp. and i like it. the jc-120's are great amps. all ss i might add.

ciao,
johnny.


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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:17 am
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Johnny take a look at the price of em. How anyone can suspect solidstate to be the cheap option is beyond me.

Roland JC120

Thats about $1260, for a plug in and play solidstate amp. Ok theres chorus, vibrato and reverb on it. But its nothing on the kind of malarky you have to go through when dialing in a digital modelling amp. It's very basic for the price.

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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:31 pm
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Is there any digital in the signal path ?
From what I can see, the Roland JC120 is solid state but NOT digital.
That might explain why it sounds so good.


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