It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:11 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 314 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 ... 21  Next
Go to page Previous  1 ... 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 ... 21  Next
Author Message
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:27 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:17 pm
Posts: 1986
wolfman63 wrote:
budglo, frightfully sorry I upset you so. You are quite passionate. What's wrong with the print? Hurt your eyes? What does it really matter what size or how bold the print is? My sincerest apology for offending you....
If you open up any modern tube amp, you are likely as not going to find ic's on the pc board which are not found in point to point wired amps. Those are solid state devices. I was not saying that printed circuit boards are bad, just that amps with them are not exclusivly tube circuitry. I did not comment in order to start an argument. I was just stating opinions which, according to you, everyone is free to express in this forum. Have a drink, and take a deep breath or two. :) and don't get your knickers in a twist. If there is scolding to be done let the administrator or moderator do it. Have a nice day :lol:
"you are likely as not going to find ics on the pc board"Huh? :? If what you are trying to say that the presence of a solid stat device makes an amp a "solid state" amp ,then I guess you would have to throw in the vintage Twin Reverb with its point to point due to the fact it has a solid state rectifier.Today there are so many types of amps , but if you take my example of the 65 deluxe reverb reissue, it is a true tube amp in every sense of the word.The fact that it has a pcb board doesnt make it any less a tube amp than the original 65 deluxe reverb.They use the exact same circuit ,but use modern technology to accomplish this.There are however hybrid amps that use both solid state and tubes .The first on the scene was the marshall "valvestate" with a tube preamp and a solid stat power amp.Like I said,point to point in and of itself doesnt mean anything.Its easier to work on and thats about it.It was the cutting edge technology at the time and thats why it was used.Doesnt make the amp sound any better at all.As far as your attitude,I will let your own words speak for itself and leave it at that.Your opinion of me means nothing at all.Like they say ,opinions are like a$$h@le$ , everyone has one. :wink:


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:28 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:02 pm
Posts: 86
:D You certainly are emotional, are you taking anything for that? I don't have an attitude, or care one way or another what your opinion of me is. Slow down! No sense getting all lathered up over a conversation. In fact I think it's hilarious that you seem to want to argue about a post in a guitar forum. Have you always had to have the last word in any conversation? How's that workin' out for ya? Lets be friendly and not carry on with this type of verbal "unpleasantness". :) :) .............see, lots of smiles, and X's and O's.
........now isn't that much nicer :?:

And good for you! I'm pleased as punch that your Fender Twin has a silicone rectifier, that must make you feel very special. When I got my first Fender amp in 1958, I was too young to know what a rectifier was used for..................


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:39 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:17 pm
Posts: 1986
wolfman63 wrote:
:D You certainly are emotional, are you taking anything for that? I don't have an attitude, or care one way or another what your opinion of me is. Slow down! No sense getting all lathered up over a conversation. In fact I think it's hilarious that you seem to want to argue about a post in a guitar forum. Have you always had to have the last word in any conversation? How's that workin' out for ya? Lets be friendly and not carry on with this type of verbal "unpleasantness". :) :) .............see, lots of smiles, and X's and O's.
........now isn't that much nicer :?:

And good for you! I'm pleased as punch that your Fender Twin has a silicone rectifier, that must make you feel very special. When I got my first Fender amp in 1958, I was too young to know what a rectifier was used for..................
I smell a troll


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:13 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:02 pm
Posts: 86
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I'm sure you do. Have a nice day! :D


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:43 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:16 pm
Posts: 8
I thought I'd add my 2 cents' worth since it's an interesting subject. Stay with me, it may take while to get to the point!

I love to play live, in front of real people. Interestingly, after the show they never say 'hey, I loved that cool tube sound from your amp'. They might say 'I liked that song', or most likely, if they enjoyed my contribution, they say 'I liked the way you played the guitar'. That's what this whole thing is about: the performance, the way you express yourself on the guitar. It's about your own sound, about sounding like yourself and no-one else. And amplification, of course, is part of it.

I use an obscure, obsolete modeller (M-Audio Black Box) a lot. Why? Because I can get the sounds I want from it, and I don't know another way of getting those sounds. It enables me to sound like myself, and different from anyone else. If someone else tells me they need a tube amp (or a big box of di-lithium crystals, or whatever) to sound unique, to get their own sound, I totally respect that. Bottom line - do whatever you need to express yourself, your way. And as long as some musicians feel they express themselves best with tubes, I think tube amps will survive.

There's a couple of other points, too. Most of the wonderful, life-enhancing guitar music of the past was made and recorded with tube amps. And there will always be people who want to go back and recreate the past with the 'authentic' gear. Not necessarily my thing, but I completely respect people who want to do it. Again, that means people will buy tube amps.

One more thing - and I recognize it even though I have no idea why this is true - tube amps are the stuff of dreams, much more than digital modellers. My modeller is a great creative tool, but my amp dream/wish list has two items on it - a vintage Deluxe Reverb and a Mesa DualRectifier - both full of tubes! Maybe this will change, but it will take quite a while, I think - few if any model-based systems have any kind of 'classic' aspirational status right now. (Note to self - super-high-end modeller - product opportunity?)

And finally - the reason I am on this forum at all is because I just bought a Fender amp. Which one? A Super Champ XD. Which of course, has both a DSP and tubes in it...who knows, maybe the way of the future?


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:03 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:53 pm
Posts: 483
Location: usa
wow. is that aaarrooo i hear in the distance? is the full moon out or something? quick, get the silver face bullets... i'll probably catch heat for kidding around... ok kids, back to class.

wolfman, no one is telling anyone what to do. they could, but that would be a barroom discussion with the usual consequences. i say tubes out pasture just like crt displays and that probably annoys you. but note again, no one is telling you what to do.

as for cyber twins, the trick is in the setup. there are so many many parameters, it's difficult to setup without some help (that's why i created cyber commander). the cyber twins will not duplicate some highly specific nuance of some particular amp and to complain about it ignores everything else these great amps deliver. in the six years, now 7 years, i have had them (i use 2 to 3 at one time), i have not had the need for pedals of any sort, or want for more power. these babies deliver. then again, i do not rely on any specific nuance to sound good, i kinda miss that point with some of you. the most amazing thing is the cyber twin's versatility to span a wide repertoire and sound good over over that span - those are the cyber twin strengths i'm talking about. and IMHO, they are better tube amps, IMHO of course (to each his own). when you bring these babies into a studio and start working with them as studio gear, then you really begin to understand what these babies can do.

i'm also a pretty loyal fender fan. the only non-fender gear i have is my jc-120. so when i'm asked about other gear, i can't recommend it, only the cyber twins. i do try other gear, i am continually educating myself, that's what makes this so much fun, never a dull moment, always room for improvement. but that's why i stick to the cyber twins (but i do have to admit, there is really good gear out there). why? i grew up with a strat - got mine used of course, and beaten i might add. fyi, my first (used&beaten) amp was a traynor. i was 14 and worked the spring, summer, and fall for this stuff. emotional ties i guess.

as for sounding good, the greatest factor i have found is just being on-time and not missing any notes, occassionally deviating but keeping time and "staying in the music" if you know what i mean. if you can do that, you are becoming a real player - this comes with lots of practice, inspirations, and dead spells, but mostly practice. but that is the way i play. maybe for a soloist it has to be much more individualistic. this i don't know since the groups i play with, we all rely on each other to sound good.

i am hoping fender takes the cyber twins to next level of development - i have high hopes and expectations. i really hope something is cooking under the hood...

ciao,
johnny.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:18 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:17 pm
Posts: 1986
Johnny, see what you started. :wink: All kidding aside,you have some great info on the cyber twin and have given some food for thought.I think when I think of digital technology, I think of my Line 6 POD, which doesnt really sound as warm as the tube amps I have, but with the improvements I think they can only get better.They have really improved the Gdec line by alot.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:34 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:02 pm
Posts: 86
[quote="johnny stecchino"]wow. is that aaarrooo i hear in the distance? is the full moon out or something? quick, get the silver face bullets... i'll probably catch heat for kidding around... ok kids, back to class.

wolfman, no one is telling anyone what to do. they could, but that would be a barroom discussion with the usual consequences. i say tubes out pasture just like crt displays and that probably annoys you. but note again, no one is telling you what to do.

Johnny, :) at this point I'm beginning to wonder how things became this complicated. I clearly stated in my post that I don't think it's productive to argue about which is best, tubes or solid state. I also said that I have and use both. I'm very happy with both. I'm not crusading for either side here, just stating the opinion that it's useless to argue about it. The opening post, yours I believe, says something to the effect that tube amps should be put out to pasture. One thing leads to another and ends up with budglo having the impression I am on a mission to insult him personally..............and now he is overwhelmed with the scent of trolls and the smell of smoke from solid state rectifiers, and you think I'm probably annoyed............ Frankly I believe the whole thing has become really too strange to bare. :lol: :lol: I sincerely hope it all works out for ya. Party on!


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:28 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:48 pm
Posts: 2315
booleanmattock wrote:
I thought I'd add my 2 cents' worth since it's an interesting subject. Stay with me, it may take while to get to the point!

I love to play live, in front of real people. Interestingly, after the show they never say 'hey, I loved that cool tube sound from your amp'. They might say 'I liked that song', or most likely, if they enjoyed my contribution, they say 'I liked the way you played the guitar'. That's what this whole thing is about: the performance, the way you express yourself on the guitar. It's about your own sound, about sounding like yourself and no-one else. And amplification, of course, is part of it.

I use an obscure, obsolete modeller (M-Audio Black Box) a lot. Why? Because I can get the sounds I want from it, and I don't know another way of getting those sounds. It enables me to sound like myself, and different from anyone else. If someone else tells me they need a tube amp (or a big box of di-lithium crystals, or whatever) to sound unique, to get their own sound, I totally respect that. Bottom line - do whatever you need to express yourself, your way. And as long as some musicians feel they express themselves best with tubes, I think tube amps will survive.

There's a couple of other points, too. Most of the wonderful, life-enhancing guitar music of the past was made and recorded with tube amps. And there will always be people who want to go back and recreate the past with the 'authentic' gear. Not necessarily my thing, but I completely respect people who want to do it. Again, that means people will buy tube amps.

One more thing - and I recognize it even though I have no idea why this is true - tube amps are the stuff of dreams, much more than digital modellers. My modeller is a great creative tool, but my amp dream/wish list has two items on it - a vintage Deluxe Reverb and a Mesa DualRectifier - both full of tubes! Maybe this will change, but it will take quite a while, I think - few if any model-based systems have any kind of 'classic' aspirational status right now. (Note to self - super-high-end modeller - product opportunity?)

And finally - the reason I am on this forum at all is because I just bought a Fender amp. Which one? A Super Champ XD. Which of course, has both a DSP and tubes in it...who knows, maybe the way of the future?


I pretty much agree with this.

Okay, then--whenever I've gone to a concert I'm looking at the gear, and thinking cool guitar or amp. Or I'm thinking, what is that guitar?

But most of the people aren't thinking that.
They may think it's a cool looking guitar if it's some outlandish shape or color--and that's fine--it's part of the showmanship aspect of a concert.

But most people aren't caring what you play through, but how it all sounded together--the whole band, duo or you guitar & voice or whatever.

And I'm listening for that too.
I've thought, "Nice gear, too bad they didn't know how to use it."

But I've never left a concert disappointed because of the gear.

_________________
It wasn't Willy-Nilly, it was at crows.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:53 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:53 pm
Posts: 483
Location: usa
hi guys,

this has been one helleva interesting thread and i hope it continues going. many great discussions and back and forth, but i don't think we have exhausted all the discussion points. we haven't even scratched the surface of what a "modern" amp should do, could do, must do, how it should be packaged, ease of use for all, what technologies it should employ, configurability, software tools, upgradebility, networkability, connectivity with studio tools, home recording & pc tools, and ahem, the price. as for us, let's go past ancient paradigms and go beyond. an important point: honoring them does not mean being bound by them. go where? i dunno, it's the journey that counts not the end point, and there will be lots of "end points". i'm willing to bet fender folks are watching, might be a little to hot for them to jump in at this time, but watching nevertheless. aarrooo! i couldn't resist...

ciao,
johnny.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:47 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:53 pm
Posts: 2252
Location: Harvard IL
Hey Johnny, that was a great point about, practice, being on time, staying in the music, hitting your notes, and practice. My years in bands has made that aspect of playing very evident. IMHO talent and high zoot equipment never makes up for just plain practice and respect for the piece of music and your contribution to your bandmates. I agree with the posts about what the audience responds to, never had a gearhead come up and say," nice amp." It's usually a tired dancer that says," I love that song, you sing it pretty well, can you guys play it again?" Only one time did I ever get a comment on equipment,"can you play the Tele more in the next set?" I think that was more of a visual thing, oh well. BTW This thread is maturing quite well. Art

_________________
None of Us are free, if One of Us is chained !


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:51 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:02 pm
Posts: 86
aarroo! here, Heat never bothered me. Two combat tours, years of racing motorcycles, boo koo gigs at biker parties and weddings, and forty years of bar wars, and I'm still alive and giggin' (with tubes and solid state gear) If I'm considered one of the "Fender folks", I'm okay with that. I'd really consider myself one of the "Leo and George Folks",but "Fender folks" is good. Thanks for the recognition, even if it is in a sarcastic reference. "I couldn't resist.................."


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:32 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:32 pm
Posts: 329
I guess you never owned a tube amp


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:58 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:02 pm
Posts: 86
quote="joncarr1979"]I guess you never owned a tube amp[/quote]

:? uhhh, you can't possibly be talking to me........can you? FYI (that's texting lingo I got from my grandchildren) I've owned and gigged with tube amps almost since that technology was new. I used to scare the dinasours with my Fender tube amps - the first ones, that were tweed covered, and had tube rectifiers. Yes, I'm an "old man" and people still pay to hear me play, even after all these years. What is vintage to a lot of you, I played when it was "state of the art". Imagine that. Keep open ears and an open mind and some day enlightenment will come, I promise.......


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:14 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 15336
Location: In a galaxy far far away
wolfman63 wrote:
I've owned and gigged with tube amps almost since that technology was new.


You've been gigging since the latter end of the 17th century :shock: :shock: :shock:

What were you plugging into the valves? A lute?


All argument aside the presence of IC chips in a valve amp doesnt make it not a valve amp, any more than putting a ecc83 preamp stage to a transistor power section makes a hybrid amp a valve amp.

If it did whenever you plugged any effect into the amp you've done the same thing. Altered the preamp section of the amp.

Despite owning a point to point wired amp, a couple of IC equipped JCM's and a valve modelling amp. I can fully atest to the fact that P2P is completely outdated and of next to no benefit at all. I strongly suspect the sound of old P2P amps has more to do with component drift than anything else. I certainly dont see how freefloating components held with nothing more than solder and wire are stonger than a printed circuitboard.

Take a look at true P2P amps innards
Image

Then go take a look at a circuitboard and tell me which is stronger.

_________________
No no and no


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 314 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 ... 21  Next
Go to page Previous  1 ... 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 ... 21  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: