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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:44 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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These days - every time I try

Quote:
Image.................

and / or
Quote:
Image


I get mostly trouble and problems. :?
Yep .... troouubles, .. with a capitol "T" :P

I just can't get a good sound from them. :twisted:
They just don't work for me. :twisted:

But - with my CT SE - sweet, sweet tone. And, since only two tubes - only two problems. :P
(pssst ... be quite - don't mention those all tube amps I have in storage)



Hehehe :lol: :lol:

And now on a little bit more serious side - Johnny once mentioned in one of his posts that if tubes are what you want, then that's what you will get. I took that as meaning - if tube amps are what is bought, then tube amps is what will be built.

Taking that a step further - if ENOUGH tube amps are built and sold - then wouldn't it follow that more tube factories would be needed to supply that demand? And, with higher production and competition, higher quality tubes should be the result. Do you agree?

And IF all that came to be - could we see a return of the RCA black plates in the future?

Fun for thought for tube lovers :lol:


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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:46 pm
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Could go the other way though. If more tubes are produced then maybe quality could slip as has been the case with many a tube amp.

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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:05 pm
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And now on a little bit more serious side - Johnny once mentioned in one of his posts that if tubes are what you want, then that's what you will get. I took that as meaning - if tube amps are what is bought, then tube amps is what will be built.

yes, that is exactly what i meant.

BTW, i believe in competition. more tubes means a more competitive market, better quality & lower price. Price always comes down when volume goes up - economy of scale. but keep in mind, there is this thing called supply and demand that determines the price point.

----

Apart from the sheer superiority in sound and dynamics I love the romanticism of valves/tubes. There is something wonderful about them I can't put my finger on that makes old school so cool and I like to have such things associated with my music.

i really doubt "sheer superiority", but i do understand "can't put my finger on that makes old school so cool and I like to have such things associated with my music" and i am quite inclined to agree with you.

ciao,
johnny.


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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:32 pm
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well heres an old dudes oponion...years ago thats all we had those heavy old tube amps...we plugged mics into along with whatever guitar we had out of the pawn shop at the moment....we leaned them back on the built in legs..upset our beer on them...and just about any amp that was used had cig burns on the top...we pushed them to limit....and just like a Timex they kept on tick'in....the tone was what we wanted to hear nice and mellow with just a bit of growl...and if you bumped them you could hear the springs....if I was going back to playing gigs again I would be hunting another tube but now I play at home on an old Gibson and a FM 25 DSP and I love it....so whats my point its all in what suits you and what you play


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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:46 pm
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Back in the late fiftys early 60's when I played I lugged that twin in and out of bars, up stairs, loaded it into the trunk of my car more times then I care to remember....we never took spare amps with us or spare parts...we trusted what we bought. The SS amps are lighter to carry and pack a lot of sound in a small box and do a good job, but to me when someone says amp I think twin reverb...tubes have their place and guys like me will still be in love with them


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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:48 pm
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call me over-analytical, but i dont think us guit slingers are ever going to produce enough volume to spur the tube industry back to life. sure, there are zillions of us in the US alone, but what this thread tells me is that a good portion of you guys are just humble homestead players and dont play out much or anything, thereby you are happy with your little 25 watt SS combo. so how much volume are we really pushing?

tubes powered a lot of different devices in the old days...now its just guitar amps. even bass amps have left the room for the most part...all SS.

also, the world doesn't need guitar players in order to function. the world DID need the UNIVAC, radio, and TV. the only void we fill now is exploitation by all the music manufacturers and record industries, etc etc. so basically they're making money off of sucker punching us. they dont care how well the quality is in their products. shoddy tubes? too bad, thats luck. cheap speaker? hey, Fender's gotta save a buck. (pisses you off, right? i second that emotion, says Smokey).
musicians are a commodity in this world, period. ever since the 60's, music is nothing more but a marketable object that could be bought and sold. its sad.
what i'm trying to say is that there is no need or motivation for anyone to step up their quality control or processes. i feel like some of these new amps coming out are just novelty items. i have trouble taking it seriously, ymmv. its like they're saying "hey, what can we get them with next?"
it's all marketing, thats all it is. they're sittin over there drawing up these cutesy new items which really have no practical purpose. example in point, the Champ 600. collector's item, nothing more. maybe that's a slanted view, but just how i see it. but hey, it's keeping people employed, so thats cool i guess.

consider this...i laugh when i walk in the music shop, seeing the walls lined with halfstacks. now thats a great way to handcuff your wallet. its easy to sell these things because sheer power sells with us gigging dudes. but you gotta use your head, man! PA systems have come a long way, and most large venues you play nowadays will hand you a mic. heck, i've played a few smaller bars that offer to mic you when it wasn't even needed. the beauty is you can get away with using smaller amps and SAVE MONEY. (okay so maybe you can gig a 600 :rolleyes:) but again, they're just doggin us. its MARKETING TACTIC.
i easily believe it when people tell me that pro artists aren't even using all the gear they have onstage. its only there to fulfill endorsement contracts. see the guitarist with a wall of Marshalls behind him. meanwhile, the guy's plugged into a POD into FOH. (yea, where are the mic's in front of the cabinets anyway?? **light bulb**). its no less product placement than a Mentos commercial. and then all us fools hop onto FDP and HC reading reviews about that Plexi we saw Joe Shredd "playing". see where this is going?

anyway, i digress. for awhile i had been gigging a FM212. i recently converted to tube because its true, you get great tone with little effort. love that Pro Jr, its like an OD pedal with a speaker. just plug in, and done. i can gig small venues easy. any larger, they usually mic you anyway. i have a very basic setup (guitar to amp) and this is what i need. perfect. i'm done fighting the hype, because i really dig what it allows me to do. tubes are no joke after all.

having said that, in favor of johnny here, new technology is workin its arse off to open new doors. i've seen some results of this and am impressed. i mentioned it before, but here it is again. Line6 Gear Box (yea i know, i hate them too, but this product actually works). i played a DRRI model, and also a TS-808 model (names were different), and it sounds almost like the real thing. i am hard to sell on the whole digital thing, but i crapped my pants. it sounded damn good. my band made a demo, and this was my medium. i actually didn't mind trying it out for a change. i went along with it just to see what would come out of it, for my knowledge and for sake of open mindedness. well that demo had some nice guitar work....err, i mean tones. i didn't have a complaint with it.

one thing digital tech. needs to improve is responsiveness, dynamics, attack...pretty much all the real world, physical aspects that tube amps can achieve. and that right there is huge. unless computers can overcome this, its gonna be a long hard battle. like many many many others, i look for these qualities. when i was recording the demo, i couldn't help noticing the delay between picking and hearing the note played. maybe the computer memory or processor was to blame, who knows? but regardless, thats a big shortcoming.

truth be told, tube amps may be fussy and temperamental things, but they won't get viruses, they won't give out your credit information, you dont have to defrag them, they dont get slow and unresponsive and cause you stress attacks (...well, maybe tube amps do cause stress time to time...), no blue screen of death, etc etc.
this is true also...that same modeling software i mentioned, well the computer it was on CRASHED one day when we planned on recording. it took like 2 hours to get everything straight again. re-installing the program evidently is not easy. i cant get into details but basically it was a mess.

i just want to pick up the guitar and play, i dont want to deal with that other bullcrap. its not instant gratification disorder, its just about being able to express yourself musically without any barriers. heck, sometimes i like the old acoustic, because its even easier to use than tube amps. its music and art. that should have no limitations. you should be able to just pick up on that sort of thing and flow with it, right on the spot.

i'll tell you what, if computers can get on the ball, i see guitarists in about 20 years bringing laptops to the local blues jam, rehearsal, and even to the stage in the Fillmore. no more amps.
heck, who needs laptops? we'll probably be operating solely off of our cell phones by then.


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Post subject: tube amps
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:27 am
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What can I say to all of that no argument thats for sure. Back when Brylcreme was in every guys bathroom and we had our collers turn up and of course that cig hanging fron the corner of your mouth we had no idea of what sound was supposed to sound like. No FM radio stations and stereo was having the rear seat speaker for your all mouth radio. But do wop was cool and the Fender sound was top of the heap. We saved our money from slinging burgers and bought the holy grail that 80 pound monster of an amp.

Like I said that amp powered the mics and axe sound was distorted most of the time but one thing for sure we could get loud plug a Jag into a twin and you could wreck a building. We had fun and made music such as it was.

And like you said now you can get by with a small amp because its miced anyway most of the time.

Well those days are gone probably forever and thats probably a good thing and yes I agree with you about the acoustic instruments thats where the music is, I have a lot of good memories of saturday nights sitting on the porch with friends jamming old Bluegrass tunes on a cheap Hondo that I still have. I don't have a clue as to what happened to that old twin but I still have a lot of fun memories from that amp and the places I took it.

I just bought the little fender and still messing with it and its fun, its loud enough to get the neighbors mad and has decent sound and I'm just learning the effects it will create but guys like me are die hards and I would sure like to hear my 335 through that old twin again


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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:23 pm
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bill948 wrote:
Johnny's not a troll.. He has a valid point, and it's HIS point. I think this whole tone debate is just well... Dumb. To each his own. I happen to be one of the folks that loves the Hot Rod Amps and the Tone I get from them. I also have a Frontman, and a Gdec, and I like the sound from them as well. Lets face it folks, its always been just opinions anyway. As Supro said "Thats my opinion, and it's worth what you paid for it" 8)


I have both and use both, although I haven't used my tube amp in a while, it's at someone else's house right now visiting.

There's no problem with both being available.
There are good and bad of both tube and solid state.
And lots of good hybrids as well.

My favorite amp of all time are the Legend Amps--and they are hybrids.

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Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:20 am
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I currently play through a modified 20W RMS Peavey SS Backstage amp from 1982 and use a tube preamp in front of it. These were hot little amps in their time. The manuals for it continually talk about how they were able to recreate the tone and dynamics of tube amps.

SS amp builders have been saying the same stuff about matching the sounds of tubes as long as I can remember. While closing your eyes and listening or recording may not reveal much difference, but anyone that has played for awhile, will also feel the difference. The dyamics to the touch and so on is as important to the player as what the listener hears. I can't play my best if the amp does not respond as I expect it too.

With that, I currently use the tubes to create my tone, and the SS power to pump the small 10' celestion speaker I put in the amp. I have to say this hybrid setup for home practice works great. Tube power amps don't color the sound as much at low volume anyway, so there is little to gain from a tube power section on a practice amp(And I say that hesitently because I still prefer a tube power section). However, the authentic tube preamp still delivers the gain, break up and dynamics I need, and the SS power section with the Celestion speaker does not lose it for me.

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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:55 pm
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Well, I have to eat my words from an earlier post. I said that I thought modeling amps were great for beginners and younger players who hadn't really found their tone yet, so the versatility would help them to get dialed in.
However, I recently bought a Super Champ XD because I can't make full use of my tube amps at home, and don't really like leaving pedals scattered around. It's a definite compromise for me, because I love my tube amps, and the SCXD doesn't nail those tones exactly. But I do get to practice with a few tones I can live with at volumes that don't disturb anybody else, so I feel it's a worthy compromise. I will say that that I've played through a lot of modeling amps, and the SCXD does a better job of the classic Fender tones than anybody else's amps, period. They also do a fair take on Vox. I'm just guessing that all the R & D work done for the Cyber-Twins has had an extra payoff in the VM series.
So even though I can't see tube amps ever being done away with, this thread that Johnny started a while back has made me reexamine the developing technology, and I've found a couple of useful things along the way.

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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:07 am
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Well I prefer tube amps BUT....if you want to hear good tone from a solid state amp check out michael powers, his personal website says he uses two fender fm25's...the guy is good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_jqdezeSik


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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:30 am
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The xd isnt a true modelling amp.Its more of a hybrid and some settings are pure tube tone whereas some settings combine the 2 technologies.


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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:53 am
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All you have to do is look at the backline on most any stage and what do you see ???

Why yes its tube amps !!!

You will see twins, super-sonics, deluxes ect.............

I do have to admit I laughed my head off when the dufuss here anounced to the world that my CT was not set up right when I showed my friend the difference between all tube circuitry and the CT.

I love people with all the answers.

Tube amps will be with us for a very long time.

Eric Clapton said it was his desire to play one note in a blues solo that would make the listener cry.

Ya solid state won't take you there.

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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:57 pm
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i hear Mr. Dufuss laughed his head off after reading Mr. Boboman's display of logic, reasoning, and room temperature IQ.

ciao,
johnny.


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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:44 am
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blues bondsman wrote:
Eric Clapton said it was his desire to play one note in a blues solo that would make the listener cry.

Ya solid state won't take you there.


Both Albert King and BB King have done that to me--using solid state amps.

That sort of thing is more in the hands and heart than in the gear.

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