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Post subject: Re: tube amps: time to put them to pasture?
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:12 am
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johnny stecchino wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me how many posts are dedicated to perpetuating various urban legends that tube amps are the holy grail of tone and at same time the number of posts dedicated to problems and the number of home-brew remedies, NOS-this-and-that, "rectifier", not tp mention the expense and pre-occupation with such in lieu of something useful. I suppose everyone needs a pet of one sort or another, maybe tube amps fulfill such needs. Otherwise I say out to pasture.

any supporting or differing opinions?

ciao,
the tube amp nemesis,
johnny.



I own both tube and solid state and for me, when I want to be me, nothing beats the sound of my tube amps and all the various effects pedals that I own....when i'm trying to sound like everyone else (cover songs), then my line 6 does a pretty good job at that. After all, it's all a matter of how you choose to express yourself. Not a matter of what technology is being utilized.

P.S.
You'll find me grazing on those lush green pastures, and I don't think I'll be alone. :D

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Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:35 am
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[img<a href="http://s394.photobucket.com/albums/pp23/twirlyboggs/?action=view&current=tubestubestubes.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp23/twirlyboggs/tubestubestubes.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>[/img]

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp23/twirlyboggs/tubestubestubes.jpg


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Post subject:
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:40 am
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IK Just announced Amplitube 3 at NAMM, and promises to be more processor friendly. I have versions 1 and 2, and while helpful, don't do clean as well as a real amp, but for recording at night without waking the family, neighbors, great. Ability to record and change the tone later good as well.

If you're running Pro Tools, you owe it to yourself to check out Eleven. It's the best amp modeler for RTAS possible, and also low on latency. Doesn't have all the effects, but you can run those in front of your DI.

I'll stick with my amps (whichever is right for the song) with a e906 in front and a condenser in the room, and simultaneously track a DI signal in case I want to do something different.

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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:46 am
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Tubes to me do one important thing for an amplifier.... They give the amp a Real Physical voice and presence thats actually physically created and you can feel it in yourself when your listening to one at a concert or just playing in your room . You can only get so much with 0010011100011101111000110(digital) just numbers interpreted with small binary processors nothing real there . I think weve hit the celing with digital amps. In fact i know we have.


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:50 am
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"Hit the ceiling with digital amps."

Bill Gates said some time ago 1 megabyte of computer memory is all anyone will ever need.

Digital technology will change, evolve and improve.

DAC's will move from 16 / 44 (CD quality) to 24 / 196 multi channel (beyond human hearing). Even beyond human hearing has the benefit of lowering the noice floor and increasing the dynamic range.

DSP's and system software will move to 64 bit.

A memory card the size of a finger nail will store a model of every amp, cabinet, stomp box, rack effect etc ever made.

In a few years this could all be put in something the size of a 9v battery, and built right into a strat, with wireless, so no cords to the amp/pa/board.

Digital stuff is sure to change.


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:08 am
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I don't think it will get that much better, people will just get used to it like CD and MP3's. I use both, but I still think they sound like garbage. Way too clean with no character or warmth. still like analog stuff. The thing is a lot of young people growing up never heard vinyl or analog anything. There lies the difference. I have 24 year old nephews that never heard a vinyl record. You like what you're accustomed to.


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:32 pm
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just like the delay from the real analog source.
a real delay produced from a tube TAPE echo box blows away anything in a lil pedal.
but if all you've heard is a dd6 then you wouldn't know, unless of course you have listened to bands out there, new and old, such as The codetalkers, steven stills, ted nugent and the amboy dukes, etc.
most of us have-

I saw Bobby Lee Rodgers, formerly of the codetalkers, out playing one night.
He had a Fender Super with a TTE box and a Leslie cabinet.
I have never heard tone like that. And yeah, he IS a monster on the guitar, but when i walked into the bar, he was just hanging on to a Am open chord and it sounded like he was from another universe. The warmth and sustain and clarity was beyond anything i have ever heard.
Tubes in the amp, tubes in the TTE box.
There is no way he would have sounded as good thru ss amp and a ss delay pedal or unit


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Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:43 pm
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Just put me down as a "Tube Nut"!! Just the way it is for me. To each his own! :wink:


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:58 pm
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First I did not read this whole thing, Yikes !!!!

A friend of mine who is an electrical engineer was over for dinner with his wife, I was fooling around with my cybertwin playing a little of this and that, He says wow that sounds great.
I had a perfect subject to test on, so I plug into an old American made original Blues Devill 4x10 and played the same stuff, the guy looks at me and says WOW !!! the tweed amp sounds so alive !!!

Case closed folks.

There you have it, a non Guitar playing music lover and well educated too, not even knowing what the difference was heard a huge difference in the tone.

Tubes=tone

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Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:09 pm
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Seems to me this question could go under the title of "Well beaten dead horse". You either get it or you don"t. The difference is something that has to be experienced on a personal level to choose which type of amp you want.


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Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:33 pm
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i see the tubesters are alive and stompin' through the analog hayfields, kicking up noise, reminiscing about their "clean", oooh-aaah, scratchy "LPs", and the snap-crackle-pop (not the cerial, but a tube amp) tones.

well at least the digital playfield isn't boring. every year, new advances, better technology, NETWORKING, lower cost, AND better tones. Blu-Ray. Apple. Plasma or LED TV. NTSC vs ATSC, guess what's better by far. yes, one and zeros seem to have the day.

do you think the world/universe is analog? i'm willing to bet you don't have a clue, or the foggiest, about quantum mechanics. it's discrete boys and girls, that's how the Creator made this universe. yes, discrete packets of energy, photons, precise energy levels, it's all discrete!!!! like ones and zeros. you know, digital...

and just because someone doesn't know how to set up his CT (and it won't be the first time) doesn't mean some analog tube amp is better. maybe you can setup the tube amp to sound crappy and then you can poll your subject as to what sounds better. but i'm sure scientific methods were used... and from that we can draw real big conclusions.

well, i do appreciate the comical relief. i now have to run down to the local gun shop and pick up a kevlar vest, triple lined. C U later ali gator.

ciao,
johnny.


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Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:43 pm
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Wow johnny I see your a guy with all the answers.

all us tube freaks bow down to you LOL !!!!!

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Post subject:
Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:46 am
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There is no right or wrong or better or worse. It's just preference, get over it. Last time I listened, I wasn't speaking in one's and zero's. More things are analog than you think. :wink: A lot of people like analog sound and there's nothing wrong with that. Personally I can't stand the CT. Johnny, don't you do programming for the CT? It's your interest, that's fine, but I don't think you'll convince any of us ancient tube users to give up our amps. LOL


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Post subject:
Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:42 am
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Johnny's company, General Cyber Systems, in Montreal, Canada, produces a very good product named cyber commander. If you have a cyber-twin, you certainly should get it. It certainly will enable you to get the most out of your cyber-twin.

I've owned a cyber-twin since 2002 & like the amp. But I do find something missing. Whether or not that difference can be accurately described in words is irrelevant.
I'll hang on to my cyber-twin as a toy, but my next amp will have only tubes in the signal path.

My plan is this. Have a great all tube amp that will last for years. They are easier to maintain than digital amps. Any experienced tech who knows basic electronics can service them.
Put whatever pedals you want on a pedalboard. Whether the pedals are tube analog, solid state analog or digital is up to you. You will be able to add, swap or change, try new pedals etc any time you want, but they will always be fed into a great tube amp (Fender has a few beauties).
When you want that beautiful Fender clean, just bypass the pedals & go straight into the amp.
Doesn't matter how many times this discussion comes up on these forums, the answer is pretty simple to me. Great tube amp & then fool around with pedals. You will always have a great sounding amp on which to try out the latest high tech pedals.


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Post subject:
Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:56 am
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Now Johnny's stringent views makes sense. No room in his mind for individual preferences or opinions. March into the SS future or you're a dinosaur!! :wink:


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