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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:34 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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i can't believe the bullying. it's I this, and I that, and so and so is an extremely talented... so better listen to my opinion, or else.

want to know why things are going digital? like the lcd tv you're looking at? how about:
1. digital media lasts forever - it does not fade or crap out like film or tape
2. digital media has the capability to store more information, with less noise or distortion than any analog media. example: digital sensors like CCD's exceed the grain density of film grains. how about hasselblad going digital, like their famed digital 503? have you seen what this camera can do???
3. analog processing cannot match digital processing, any tiny point and shoot does so much more, why am i even trying to tell you this???
4. cost.
5. as for tube amps, modeling amps, cybernetic amps, and laptops, "strong opinions" mean squat. it's the tones, the music, your personal capability, and what you feel good with that counts. in my very humble opinion, modern modeling/cybernetic amps have incredible tones, more interesting (and better) than tube amps, but that's my OPINION, not a universal fact.

here's what you have trouble with: the quality of "digital" and digital media beats out analog. this can be quantitatively measured, as opposed to "strong opinions". this has nothing to do with snobbery or opinion, it has to do with measurement and results.

i am 55 and i grew up with tubes. long before i designed with digital or software , i designed with tubes, transistors, op amps, etc, so i know something about the subject matter. i was playing before i was teen so i think i know how to play, at least that's what others tell me, and i think i know something about what sounds good or not so good. if i were a young man, i would definitely be building a career on where the technology is going, not where it's been.

ciao,
johnny.


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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:25 pm
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Well..here is my take. I went to college for Audio Engineering graduated with a BS in it...worked in the music industry as an engineer and as a session musician. I love tube and SS amps. I don't know much about the laptop software. I have heard it and thought it sounded good...BUT, I prefer an amplifier...with a Tele..and a really good mic...maybe a C414 ULS in a figure 8 pattern and a nice bluebird to make it a nice MS recording...that said..IMHO it is all personal preference...


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Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:09 am
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johnny stecchino wrote:
how about hasselblad going digital, like their famed digital 503? have you seen what this camera can do???


Without wanting to sound like I'm bullying you... this nicely illustrates the futility of the argument.

Ask most professional photographers whether they prefer digital or traditional media and they'll say digital for practicality, but traditional media in terms of the 'quality' of the final image.

I put the word quality in parenthesis because quality in the context of the arts is a thing you cannot measure.

To use another analogy. A lot of people prefer the 'quality' of vinyl discs to the so-called perfection of digital media.

You can't quantify these things – so give me subjectivity, opinion, passion and heated argument any day... it's what keeps the Forum alive.


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Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:22 am
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It's like watching a train wreck, or rubber-necking an accident on the interstate(highway). I just can't help but always read all the arguments here on the forum! :lol: By the way, I don't mean to offend anyone so don't flame me! :D

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Post subject:
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:22 am
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when it comes to bullying, you should take a look in the mirror buddy.

your claims are based on what? analytical results? or your stale opinion?

vinyl discs!!! ha!!! boy would i like to sell the utmost audio cable at $100/foot because it'll expand your aural experience in a utterly undescribable state and other audiophile salesmanship malarkey while i laugh myself silly all the way to the bank. this is sarcasm leveled at the nonsense i read in some audiophile mags. i can understand how you might get bamboozled.

i simply hope that your advice & opinioning does not influence a young mind. my brother-in-law is in the ad and media business, and is very, very successful (he's a VP), and guess what his firm uses and hires: digital everything. The artists use photoshop & apple computers - the preferred (if not mandatory for a young person starting out) tools of the trade. the (pros as opposed to hobbyists) photographers all use digital camers. everything is digital, the image quality has always been spectacular, so have the prints. i have no idea what you are talking about, based on what i have seen. the printers have all gone digtal as well. the digital reproduction machines are so damned good that they have been deliberately made deficient in certain respects so that they can't be used to to produce counterfeit money. if not mucked up, it would be hard to tell the diff (assuming of course, the paper matched the real thing).

As for hasselblad, let's see, their cameras sell for outrageous prices, pros buy them, they seem to be quite successful (hasselbald and the pros). i'm not a photo pro, i only see what they use when they come by or when i've visited their studios. i base my report on observations of others.

as for "loosing" digital media, it never gets lost, it copies perfectly everytime. I have code, reports, and libraries going back 35 years, all the way back to the VAX days, and none it has been lost. ever hear of error correcting codes? you just have to know what you doing. in case you don't know, national archives are going digital. guess why.

ciao,
johnny.


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Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:06 am
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johnny stecchino wrote:
when it comes to bullying, you should take a look in the mirror buddy.

your claims are based on what? analytical results? or your stale opinion?

vinyl discs!!! ha!!! boy would i like to sell the utmost audio cable at $100/foot because it'll expand your aural experience in a utterly undescribable state and other audiophile salesmanship malarkey while i laugh myself silly all the way to the bank. this is sarcasm leveled at the nonsense i read in some audiophile mags. i can understand how you might get bamboozled.

i simply hope that your advice & opinioning does not influence a young mind. my brother-in-law is in the ad and media business, and is very, very successful (he's a VP), and guess what his firm uses and hires: digital everything. The artists use photoshop & apple computers - the preferred (if not mandatory for a young person starting out) tools of the trade. the (pros as opposed to hobbyists) photographers all use digital camers. everything is digital, the image quality has always been spectacular, so have the prints. i have no idea what you are talking about, based on what i have seen. the printers have all gone digtal as well. the digital reproduction machines are so damned good that they have been deliberately made deficient in certain respects so that they can't be used to to produce counterfeit money. if not mucked up, it would be hard to tell the diff (assuming of course, the paper matched the real thing).

As for hasselblad, let's see, their cameras sell for outrageous prices, pros buy them, they seem to be quite successful (hasselbald and the pros). i'm not a photo pro, i only see what they use when they come by or when i've visited their studios. i base my report on observations of others.

as for "loosing" digital media, it never gets lost, it copies perfectly everytime. I have code, reports, and libraries going back 35 years, all the way back to the VAX days, and none it has been lost. ever hear of error correcting codes? you just have to know what you doing. in case you don't know, national archives are going digital. guess why.

ciao,
johnny.


My dear chap, you have clearly misinterpreted everything I wrote.

Please read the bit about vinyl again... did I say it was BETTER than digital? No. I said it was of a different 'quality' to digital and that some people prefer the 'qualities' of vinyl... (and tube amplifiers and silver halide photography).

I took pains to define 'quality' in the context of the discussion. Namely, that it is futile to measure the 'quality' of sound when it applies to whether or not someone prefers the 'qualities' of one sound to another.

I think that's the nature of the debate, yet you seem stuck on this idea that 'quality' is simply to do with measurable degrees of excellence.

I hope that makes it clear... if not, I give up mate!


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Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:11 am
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johnny stecchino wrote:
when it comes to bullying, you should take a look in the mirror buddy.

your claims are based on what? analytical results? or your stale opinion?

vinyl discs!!! ha!!! boy would i like to sell the utmost audio cable at $100/foot because it'll expand your aural experience in a utterly undescribable state and other audiophile salesmanship malarkey while i laugh myself silly all the way to the bank. this is sarcasm leveled at the nonsense i read in some audiophile mags. i can understand how you might get bamboozled.

i simply hope that your advice & opinioning does not influence a young mind. my brother-in-law is in the ad and media business, and is very, very successful (he's a VP), and guess what his firm uses and hires: digital everything. The artists use photoshop & apple computers - the preferred (if not mandatory for a young person starting out) tools of the trade. the (pros as opposed to hobbyists) photographers all use digital camers. everything is digital, the image quality has always been spectacular, so have the prints. i have no idea what you are talking about, based on what i have seen. the printers have all gone digtal as well. the digital reproduction machines are so damned good that they have been deliberately made deficient in certain respects so that they can't be used to to produce counterfeit money. if not mucked up, it would be hard to tell the diff (assuming of course, the paper matched the real thing).

As for hasselblad, let's see, their cameras sell for outrageous prices, pros buy them, they seem to be quite successful (hasselbald and the pros). i'm not a photo pro, i only see what they use when they come by or when i've visited their studios. i base my report on observations of others.

as for "loosing" digital media, it never gets lost, it copies perfectly everytime. I have code, reports, and libraries going back 35 years, all the way back to the VAX days, and none it has been lost. ever hear of error correcting codes? you just have to know what you doing. in case you don't know, national archives are going digital. guess why.

ciao,
johnny.


:roll: :roll: You're a real piece of work. It must be tough knowing everything technical. You sir are the bully in this thread.


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Post subject:
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:37 am
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Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:17 pm
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What do you expect from an "engineer".In my line of work , i spend a great deal of time fixing poorly engineered systems. :roll:


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Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:13 am
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63supro wrote:

:roll: :roll: You're a real piece of work. It must be tough knowing everything technical. You sir are the bully in this thread.


Man I thought exactly the same thing on page 1 and took a neutral'ish kind of stance.

What seems to be the problem here is a misinterpretation of technology. Digital all the way for business, yep couldnt agree more. Super reliable, same results day in, day out. Thats why recording studio's were only too happy to switch to digital recording. Their a business and business's need the stability modern digital, computerized technology offers. The artists using the place though will likely have atleast one analogue instrument, even if its only the vocalist. Note how badly the VG strat has done. You dont see many of those line6 guitars ever. Occasionaly when something obscure is needed.
Give me celluloid and valves any day for their particular places in art. After all thats what both music and photography is. I dont want my art pristine, super clean, and ultimately a little bland. Art needs an element of the chaotic in it somewhere.

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Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:33 am
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nikininja wrote:
63supro wrote:

:roll: :roll: You're a real piece of work. It must be tough knowing everything technical. You sir are the bully in this thread.


Man I thought exactly the same thing on page 1 and took a neutral'ish kind of stance.

What seems to be the problem here is a misinterpretation of technology. Digital all the way for business, yep couldnt agree more. Super reliable, same results day in, day out. Thats why recording studio's were only too happy to switch to digital recording. Their a business and business's need the stability modern digital, computerized technology offers. The artists using the place though will likely have atleast one analogue instrument, even if its only the vocalist. Note how badly the VG strat has done. You dont see many of those line6 guitars ever. Occasionaly when something obscure is needed.
Give me celluloid and valves any day for their particular places in art. After all thats what both music and photography is. I dont want my art pristine, super clean, and ultimately a little bland. Art needs an element of the chaotic in it somewhere.


How true! Is the guy Vyvyan in your photo from "The Young Ones"?
Loved that show.


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Post subject:
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:47 am
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Aspiring Musician
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gotta admit i'm having fun getting you analogers all worked up. i really hope you guys don't take things personal. hell, if you guys were here in montreal i'd love to buy you all a drink and shoot the $@!&.

veryslowhand: guess i keyed on quality in a quantitative sense, been trained to do that since first year college. now understand that you meant qualitative. i hope you understand my quantitative argument.

bbrodie: nice portrait photos of Les Paul. can't say i'm familiar with the pro photographer business, am familiar with media and advertising biz. agree economy has hurt everyone, my brother-in-law's biz has re-bounded and is doing well, it's in growth mode. btw, here's something for you from a friend of mine: http://www.crilaphoto.com/gallery.html
and my bud on the momozone: http://www.themomozone.com/
that's what i'm talking about.

63supro: oh yeah, well i think you would look good in construction boots, sir. meet me outside and we'll settle it like kids. hey, i hope you can take a little bit of ribbing and laugh about it.

budglo: what can i say. junk is junk. the good stuff simply works...

nikininja: couldn't agree more. it's what you like in the end that counts. the only thing i have been trying to say is that the new technology shouldn't be dismissed, it could be mind-opening stuff!!!

ciao,
johnny.


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Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:10 pm
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Yeah your absolutely right 'dont dismiss anything'. If people had dismissed the strat all them years ago it may not have come out till 64. It took 10 odd years for the flying V to be released after all.

I for one still record demo's onto my laptop. I dont go direct though. Just setup my zoom H2 infront of my amp and off I go. Its simple, stops me having to shell out for interfaces and learn lots of stuff that may well push other vital bits of knowledge out of my ear. You'd never believe I forgot how to boil an egg would you. Its serious business in my brain, theres a huge war for territory going on. I think its called getting on a bit.

Truth be told I used to use a podv2 and floorboard into a poweramp for live stuff. I never quite plucked up the guts to go direct to the board and rely on the monitors.

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Post subject:
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:33 pm
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johnny stecchino wrote:
hell, if you guys were here in montreal i'd love to buy you all a drink and shoot the $@!&.
.


montreal, so why do you have USA as your location?
i knew it, Quebec DOES want to join the Union! :roll:

anyway, as someone mentioned, there is something to be said about naturally speaker-pushed air. can't replicate that.


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