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Post subject: Laptops vs Amplifiers
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:52 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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I'll admit it, I'm an old guy, been playing since '66. However I've been to a couple of large out door concerts where the guitarists were not using amps at all. It appeared they were playing into a laptop that was then connected to the soundboard and PA. In each case the guitarists sounded great. I love conventional amplifiers but it looks like maybe a trend is developing where some artists have decided to ditch the amp in favor of a computer. Are any of you guys doing this and what are the advantages and disadvantages? I'll have to admit not dragging around a Twin would be nice, if the alternative was reliable.


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Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:11 pm
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that's where the technology is going. I find guitarists hanging onto tube amps really funny - they don't seem to realize what a throw back that is. Shameless plug: the Cyber Twin is kind of like a hybrid - it is wildly complicated, it takes a laptop to really control it, and it's still a one-box amp - very gigable and easy to transport anywhere.

Ciao,
johnny.


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Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:21 pm
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It would not surprise me at all. I have heard some computer programs that simulate old tube amps rather well.

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Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:39 pm
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I've been dabbling with this myself, but lean towards amps, because I find computers less dependable for this type of situation. Maybe they are use specially designed computer system.

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:56 am
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johnny stecchino wrote:
I find guitarists hanging onto tube amps really funny - they don't seem to realize what a throw back that is.


Not nearly as funny as software engineers who don't understand why guitar players hang onto tube amps.

I'm a heavy software amp user... my software of choice is POD Pro 2.0 and NI Guitar Rig, and I've used them both on lots of tracks. But as good as they sound, they don't ever feel like a tube amp. And, they still don't sound as harmonically rich... I think there's just too much crazy voodoo between pre-amp, power amp and speaker.

Not that it can't be duplicated some day, but I haven't played anything yet that does it. It's still just plain more fun to play a good amp.


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:29 am
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SlapChop wrote:
johnny stecchino wrote:
I find guitarists hanging onto tube amps really funny - they don't seem to realize what a throw back that is.


Not nearly as funny as software engineers who don't understand why guitar players hang onto tube amps.

I'm a heavy software amp user... my software of choice is POD Pro 2.0 and NI Guitar Rig, and I've used them both on lots of tracks. But as good as they sound, they don't ever feel like a tube amp. And, they still don't sound as harmonically rich... I think there's just too much crazy voodoo between pre-amp, power amp and speaker.

Not that it can't be duplicated some day, but I haven't played anything yet that does it. It's still just plain more fun to play a good amp.


Well said!


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:20 am
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i'm not as close-minded as these tube snobs can be, and i have almost crapped my pants when i recorded a few tracks using Line 6's Ableton amp modeling software. they have a very good Fender model, i forget what actual model it imitates, but sounded very good. they also have pedal models, and i used the ts-808 imitation into the fender model. sounded very nice, almost like the real thing.

now here's why i'm not ready to buy into this new movement. it is what it is, a computer. you don't have to worry about amps getting viruses and slowed down by junk files and low memory, and need to be defrag'd, etc etc etc. plus, no identity theft or hackerz.
this probably explains why modeling programs can often suffer from delayed attack/response. that's hard to deal with. this technology is probably ahead of its time, i don't think the computer is quite where it needs to be in order to fully appease the working musician.

also, i look at this the same way i do those multi-effects processors. i always felt that having one thing dedicate to one purpose is always better than one thing dedicated to doing 100 things in one box. all you're gonna get is like 96 half-a$$ed sounds, maybe the other 4 are usable. it tends to be a marketing ploy.

of course, the main advantage is versatility and portability, and low maintenance (minus the computer maintenance).

but i do agree with the tube snobs on the fact that its very hard to beat a little 20 lb. 15 watt hot head of an amp that just absolutely kills and is plug-and-play, no frills necessary. i've been gigging with a Pro Jr, just straight guitar into amp, cranked volume, and that's all i need. played a party sat. night, i was very content with my sound. great way to go for a cheap rig, minus the crap QC.

as a side note, i saw a recent concert with the Police, and i think Andy had a laptop in front of him. so it is catching hold


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:04 pm
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msvolpe wrote:
i saw a recent concert with the Police, and i think Andy had a laptop in front of him. so it is catching hold


He was reading the tab... his memory is going!


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:08 pm
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How do you think Ozzy does it?Cue cards?


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:24 pm
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i dont know, maybe i'm old school, with the whole memorizing thing


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:59 pm
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SlapChop wrote:
johnny stecchino wrote:
I find guitarists hanging onto tube amps really funny - they don't seem to realize what a throw back that is.


Not nearly as funny as software engineers who don't understand why guitar players hang onto tube amps.

I'm a heavy software amp user... my software of choice is POD Pro 2.0 and NI Guitar Rig, and I've used them both on lots of tracks. But as good as they sound, they don't ever feel like a tube amp. And, they still don't sound as harmonically rich... I think there's just too much crazy voodoo between pre-amp, power amp and speaker.

Not that it can't be duplicated some day, but I haven't played anything yet that does it. It's still just plain more fun to play a good amp.



Here's another funny: a guitarist that thinks his mojo or ability to sound good is in a tube. Sorry if I don't buy into the tube "voodoo" mumbo-jumbo. Want to really improve your tone? Buy a metronome and learn how keep time (i'm a rhythm player and i am not kidding about this).

ciao,
johnny


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:34 pm
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I was gonna say, the CYBER TWIN /SE is pretty close to what your talking about here....Ive had mine for over a year & i'm still finding new tones that just kill!.....as for the tube guys, their tone/feel is sweet but....technology is callin'!

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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:58 am
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johnny stecchino wrote:
Want to really improve your tone? Buy a metronome and learn how keep time (i'm a rhythm player and i am not kidding about this).

ciao,
johnny



I'm curious, how does keeping good time improve your... TONE?


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:12 am
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johnny stecchino wrote:
Want to really improve your tone? Buy a metronome and learn how keep time (i'm a rhythm player and i am not kidding about this).

ciao,
johnny


Want to really improve your manners? Stop assuming that your superior knowledge of software somehow translates into a superior knowledge of everything, including the pedigrees of the people you speak with.

I've been playing guitar - classical, acoustic steel-string, and electric - professionally for 43 years, and I have practiced with a metronome for so long that my sense is time is like a razor. Time is ultimately important, but a metronome doesn't improve "tone." Practice certainly does.

As I said before, I think software amps are fine, but they do not replicate the experience of playing a guitar amplifier. I'm repeating this because you seem to have had a difficult time reading it, and were under the impression that I said something to the effect that my "mojo or ability to sound good is in a tube," which is not what I said at all.

If you can successfully argue the other side of that point, then go ahead on. But I'm guessing you can't, since so far the argument has gone like this:

Johnny: "Software amps are awesome! You're dumb if you don't think so LOL!"

SLap" "Uhhhhh..... no. I use them in my work extensively, but there's still no substitute for the feel of a tube amp... it's just fun to play."

Johnny: "Oh, yeah? Well... buy a metronome!"

WTF?

BTW< I'm not really arguing with you, as I don't give a flip either way... I'm not trying to hawk some kind of software and I don't build amps, so I don't have a dog in this fight. But I do get weary of on-line forumites misreading what I type. So, I have an urge to correct it.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:33 am
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Avid Digidesign has a new piece worth checking out really awesome a lot of guitarist ,ones on tour are using the software effects but what you dont see is the amplifier is usually onstage sometimes hidden within the stage settings and props, try software effects with a macbook pro into the effects send/receive of a Blues Deville reissue ummm nice!!! :D


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