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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:40 am
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rholloman wrote:

One thing that I was really surprised to find out was it is a pcb construction amp. At the price they ask for a little no frills 20 watter head - I really expected it to be wired up like the older amps were.


A little "no frills" 20-watter?

Perhaps you should read the feature list again.

And as 63Supro also already pointed out, PCB amps aren't inherently bad. You can build a good one, or build a bad one. The magic isn't in hand-soldered joints, but in the circuit.


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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:18 pm
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One thing against the HR series is it has a history.The jury is still out on the Egnater.Not saying its a bad amp, just saying they are all great amps initially.Granted the HR isnt built as good as alot of amps,but it is listed as a "budget" amp. It means its a little more fragile than say a twin.But then again Magilla gorrilla the roadie isnt gonna be tossing around a twin like he can a HR.Its particleboard .


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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:52 pm
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budglo wrote:
One thing against the HR series is it has a history.The jury is still out on the Egnater.Not saying its a bad amp, just saying they are all great amps initially.Granted the HR isnt built as good as alot of amps,but it is listed as a "budget" amp. It means its a little more fragile than say a twin.But then again Magilla gorrilla the roadie isnt gonna be tossing around a twin like he can a HR.Its particleboard .


And why are we talking about the Deluxe? The thread originator asked about the Blues Deville. I bought a rebel and returned it after two days. Looked like a quality amp, but I just didn't dig the sound. Give me one of the junker old Fenders any day.

Could it be the reason you hear about so many of them having issues is because they have sold a gazillion of them? :wink:

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Gear: Fender Strat Plus Deluxe (Dimarzio Area 58/67/61), Gibson ES-135, Genz Benz BP-30, Fender HR Deville 4X10 and Princeton Reverb RI.


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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:04 pm
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well i have had 2 blues jrs , a used hot rod and a new blues deluxe and have not had a problem with any of them.I used to gig 4 times a month, now just 1-2 times.I know people have had problems with them , but i dont think there is a large number of them or Fender would have taken them off the market.


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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:50 pm
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My HRDlx started it's crap after a month and a half, I gigged it more than a few times a month though. There are a few folks who don't like Rebel. That's cool, that's why we have choices. Like I always said, it was the reliability not the sound that I hated with the HRDlx. The Rebel 20 from what I can see has been around for somewhere about year, I could be wrong though. I've been pushing this Rebel like crazy for the past couple of weeks at rehearsals and practicing on my own. With not even a crackle or any glitch. They have very few problems and the customer service is second to none. Bruce Egnater has been around since 1975. Most young players never heard of him. With some of the geezers I know, his custom stuff is legendary.

The reason I like Egnater is because there is a face attached to the product. He has a lot more at stake. His name and personal reputation is on the line and on front of the amp. His amps were high end boutique amps way back. I couldn't afford them. I was glad he started mass producing his amps.

FMIC doesn't really care about anything but the big bucks. Leo sold his company to CBS in 1965. Anyone who thinks they are hearing the classic Fender tone in the HRD series, never played a new Fender amp in 1965. I have. I have a something to compare the HRDlx to. If you can't get a great sound out of the Rebel, I don't think it's the amps fault. I'm seriously picky about my tone as is SlapChop as you can tell by his recordings. So far my Egnater takes everything I can dish out in spades.

IMO the reason you hear about so many issues with HRD amps, is because they are poorly designs with cheap components. It was THE worst Fender amp I ever owned in 40 years of using mostly Fender amps.

They sell a gazillion of them because of the hypa and the price point.


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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:46 pm
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Out of the tube amp series(i mean preamp and power amp) i would have to say they are definately at the bottom . I also agree, it doesnt have that Classic Fender tone.I have a 75 super reverb and a 59 bassman ri, so i know what it sounds like.Fender came out with the Hot Rod line to produce an affordable or budget tube amp.The price is one of the reasons why they sell so many.Could they make it with better parts? For sure, but then it would be a 1200-1400 dollar amp.It would be out of reach for some.I still believe that it isnt really a workhorse amp that is meant to be heavily gigged.It is made of particleboard and wouldnt stand up to roadie "Bubba" throwing it around .I have Sauder cabinets that i use to store stuff , ,so i know what i am talking about.That doesnt mean that all Hot Rods are junk and no one should buy them.If you use them in a studio or at home it is a great amp for the money.If you dont gig alot and are careful transporting them you will probably be fine.I play my bassman out most of the time, but sometimes i play my blues jr at the smaller venues and at practice.I even play my blues deluxe when i dont feel like lugging the bassman or i am worried about the 4-10s being too much.


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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:11 pm
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I wouldn't use it in a studio situation. I would have gladly have paid more for an amp with better components. The HRDlx isn't a low priced amp. The Champs are. You pretty much pay a premium for popularity with the HRD series. You should be able to gig with almost any amp you buy. My 74 Champ is built like a tank. I've tossed that around for years. Even did a ton of small gigs with it and an extension cabinet. If the HRDlx was designed better even if the tubes were mounted in such a way as to not flex the board half the problems would be solved. Foam on the pream tubes instead of spring loaded covers is pretty cheesy.

Just look at the quality of your SR and Bassman.


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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:07 pm
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I will admit the construction of even the 90s bassman , even though its a pcb is pretty sturdy.I dont know how they compared pricewise to the hr series , but i know they werent anywhere near the 1699 price of todays bassman.As far as my sfsr , toget that kind of construction today you have to get a custom shop amp to get that kind of quality.


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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:37 pm
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SlapChop wrote:
rholloman wrote:

One thing that I was really surprised to find out was it is a pcb construction amp. At the price they ask for a little no frills 20 watter head - I really expected it to be wired up like the older amps were.


A little "no frills" 20-watter?

Perhaps you should read the feature list again.

And as 63Supro also already pointed out, PCB amps aren't inherently bad. You can build a good one, or build a bad one. The magic isn't in hand-soldered joints, but in the circuit.


Easy Man!!

Perhaps you should find out why I say that, AND WHERE I"M COMING FROM before you say "Perhaps you should read the feature list again." I mean the little guy doesn't even have reverb! Does it? OR any kind of delay? Does it? It's just amplification. (Very good sounding amplification IMO - but still, just amplification)

I know you like your new toy - but as they say - it is what it is :!:

As for the rest of your statement about pcb construction - if you had bothered to read a little further down you would have seen ....

rholloman wrote:
I know that pcb construction isn't necessarily bad. (my CT SE is pcb construction - and it's still fine after all these years) But pcb construction has gotten a bad reputation because of some of the "problem amps" using it.


As you could easily see from that - I have AND I LIKE VERY MUCH my pcb construction amp. Why - because it sounds good to me - and, just as important, the only problem has been a tube weakening and needing replacement. It has been reliable. So, yes, they can make them that way. IF THEY WANT TO.

But I thought one point about Egnater amps was - it is supposed to be "custom" and/or "custom built" amps - i.e. hand wired - hand built. And the price suggests that too. At least in my view.

If you like it - GREAT! I'm glad you do. [thumbsup]

But as for me - I'm still not going to rush out and buy one. :)


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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:02 pm
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63supro wrote:
..........................................................

You get what you pay for. The price for this amp is actually great compared to others. What do you pay for a HRDlx so-called limited edition? It's the same HRDlx amp but with white knobs, a different speaker and different colored Tolex.


Concerning the prices now days, and that "you get what you pay for" comment.

If you really "get what you pay for", then you should pay twice as much and get twice as good a product. Right? That's only logical - IF "you get what you pay for", "you get what you pay for" - AUCK (got a parrot in here some where :roll: ) :D
(as you might gather from the above - I don't buy into any of that "you get what you pay for" junk - not in this world economy these days) :D

And about prices ; PRICES ARE TOO HIGH!! PERIOD!!!

As for comparing it to a Hot Rod of any description - I wouldn't want one of any of that series - top to bottom - at any price. Not even free - IF I had to keep it and use it. The sound sample that was posted of the little Rebel sounded very good to my ears. The Hot Rods I have heard either didn't sound good or required a lot of work to get it to sound good - at least IMHO.

For the money they are asking for those - they should be a top notch amps - especially with the Fender name on it!
Not a "problem child" like you had!

One more point to all about prices;
I like my CT SE better than any amp I have had - so far - and that's since I started playing in the early 60s. BUT - if it failed right now - I would NOT buy a new one to replace it. Why? Because - THE PRICES ARE TOO HIGH!!


(I know all you dealers out there don't like to hear that! - but the truth is the truth!) (I don't have money to throw away anymore - especially in those huge amounts)

In case no one else has noticed - there is a world wide recession (or depression, depending on, if you are affected, or not) going on.
Just an FYI :lol: :wink:


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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:42 pm
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If the prices bother you, don't buy them. Simple isn't it?
As far as no features on the Egnater, nothing has more effects compared to a Cyber Twin, except maybe a Line 6, but I can't stand a bunch of cheesy digital effects on my amps anyway. :roll:
I've been playing over 40 years and like to keep things simple.


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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:14 pm
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Double post


Last edited by 63supro on Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:15 pm
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I find the Egnater Rebel a great value with a great feature set. I've owned a few amps with no reverb. My Bandmaster had no reverb, my SF Champ has no reverb either. My SF Twin does but I rarely used it. I'm not a big fan of reverb anyway. I've had my Twin for over 30 years.

The Rebels not a Cyber Twin, but I prefer the tone of a tube power and preamp section over a hybrid amp. Even though the hybrids are much more affordable. You do get what you pay for in most cases but in the case of the Egnater, you get much more than you paid for in terms of tonal complexity and a quality product.


Last edited by 63supro on Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:01 am
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63supro wrote:
If the prices bother you, don't buy them. Simple isn't it?
....................... .


:lol: :lol: :lol:

That's the point - And, like some others that feel the same way, I will not buy.

I hope your amp proves to be as good as you think it is. Time will tell. 8)

And just in case someone missed the point about the "you get what you pay for" thing;
It's been my experience that you RARELY get what you pay for these days. Occasionally a person might find some item that is good quality, at a fair price - but that's getting harder to find with each passing day.

Now .... If Y'All will quit throwing rocks at the messenger, I won't need to defend myself. I didn't write any of the articles. Nor did I take the pictures in the articles. I just found them by searching - like anyone else can do - and passed on the info AND HOW ANYONE ELSE CAN FIND IT TOO.

If you think it's worth the cost - fine - you buy it. I do not - so I will not buy - at least not at this time.

As you put it - Simple isn't it?


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