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Post subject: Clean Sound on Hot Rod Deluxe
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:33 am
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How can you get the loudest clean sound on a hot rod deluxe using a strat ? I'm finding that the amp distorts fairly quickly. Should the guitar volume be set lower and the amp loud ? I know these amps are supposed to distort fairly easy by I want to get a clean sound as loud as I can. So far I put my guitar volume at 6 and amp at about 6 with the middle pick-up. Any other suggestions out there ? Thanks


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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:29 pm
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Replace your 12AX7 preamp tubes with 12AT7's. The AT7's have about 60% less gain. This should increase your clean headroom. Also try plugging into imput 2. Hope this helps. 8) Mike

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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:18 pm
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The 12AT7's will help some, but it will never be like say a Twin clean. It's a Hot Rod and made to breakup fairly early. About all you can do is crank back on the guitar volume and try some 12AT7's.

That was one of a million reasons I just sold mine.


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Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:26 pm
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63supro wrote:
The 12AT7's will help some, but it will never be like say a Twin clean. It's a Hot Rod and made to breakup fairly early. About all you can do is crank back on the guitar volume and try some 12AT7's.

That was one of a million reasons I just sold mine.

Put a 12au7 in V1 and get the late breakup power tubes if you want cleans. The hotter the tube bias the less clean you will get. Bias at a mid setting say 60 to 65mv. You can run an EQ for boost to get your gain back up. You will find you can now turn your volume knob higher to get your tone.
Supro: How are you liking the new amp now?

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Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:44 pm
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Cap47 wrote:
63supro wrote:
The 12AT7's will help some, but it will never be like say a Twin clean. It's a Hot Rod and made to breakup fairly early. About all you can do is crank back on the guitar volume and try some 12AT7's.

That was one of a million reasons I just sold mine.

Put a 12au7 in V1 and get the late breakup power tubes if you want cleans. The hotter the tube bias the less clean you will get. Bias at a mid setting say 60 to 65mv. You can run an EQ for boost to get your gain back up. You will find you can now turn your volume knob higher to get your tone.
Supro: How are you liking the new amp now?


With a 12au7 in V1, you'll get lucky to get any breakup in the overdrive channel, if I'm not mistaken. Of course, that might be exactly what you'd like to do. You might also discover that you don't have nearly as much volume as you'd like to have, though I think you still would get some good compression. I would recommend a 12ay7 in V1 and 12at7 in V3, which should still allow the amp to break-up, though not as much.

Those of you out there who are true tube experts, please don't hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong. But that's what I did with my Blues Deluxe Reissue, which doesn't have as much gain as a HotRod Deluxe.


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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:08 am
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Cap47 wrote:
63supro wrote:
The 12AT7's will help some, but it will never be like say a Twin clean. It's a Hot Rod and made to breakup fairly early. About all you can do is crank back on the guitar volume and try some 12AT7's.

That was one of a million reasons I just sold mine.

Put a 12au7 in V1 and get the late breakup power tubes if you want cleans. The hotter the tube bias the less clean you will get. Bias at a mid setting say 60 to 65mv. You can run an EQ for boost to get your gain back up. You will find you can now turn your volume knob higher to get your tone.
Supro: How are you liking the new amp now?


Depending on the specs of the tube, 60-65mv may be way too cold. You need to know the plate voltage and bias at 70% of that. JJ's can handle 80mv or better.

If the amp is biased too cold your tone will really suffer. It will become brittle and sterile. The icepick in the forehead syndrome" that the HRD series are known for.

I would call Bob at www.Eurotubes.com and see what he recommends.Bob is seriously helpful and knowledgeable.


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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:19 am
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Cap47,
I am totally loving the Egnater. I've been sitting for hours creating new tones. No strange tones, ghost notes or tube rattles and speaker farting like the HRDlx. I can't get a bad tone from the Egnater amp. The funny thing is with my HRDlx, I had to change out the tubes right away. The stock GT's were horrible and went microphonic within a month. I was going to change out the speaker too but decided to sell the amp instead. The Egnater came stock with a full set of JJ's, Birch cabinets and a custom Celestion speaker. It's like I'm old school again and I'm totally diggin it. I tried my old Ibanez digital echo in the effects loop and the loop is really quiet. No hiss of any kind.

Thanks a lot for asking!


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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:59 am
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senggedorje wrote:
Cap47 wrote:
63supro wrote:
The 12AT7's will

Put a 12au7 in V1 and get the late breakup power tubes if you want cleans. The hotter the tube bias the less clean you will get. Bias at a mid setting say 60 to 65mv. You can run an EQ for boost to get your gain back up. You will find you can now turn your volume knob higher to get your tone.


With a 12au7 in V1, you'll get lucky to get any breakup in the overdrive channel, if I'm not mistaken. Of course, that might be exactly what you'd like to do. You might also discover that you don't have nearly as much volume as you'd like to have, though I think you still would get some good compression. I would recommend a 12ay7 in V1 and 12at7 in V3, which should still allow the amp to break-up, though not as much.

Those of you out there who are true tube experts, please don't hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong. But that's what I did with my Blues Deluxe Reissue, which doesn't have as much gain as a HotRod Deluxe.

I have the a 12au7 in mine and I still get breakup. V2 Penta, V3 sov. 12ax7 WC. TAD 6L6wgc-str power.. I speak from experience.

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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:27 am
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Cap47 wrote:
senggedorje wrote:
Cap47 wrote:
63supro wrote:
The 12AT7's will

Put a 12au7 in V1 and get the late breakup power tubes if you want cleans. The hotter the tube bias the less clean you will get. Bias at a mid setting say 60 to 65mv. You can run an EQ for boost to get your gain back up. You will find you can now turn your volume knob higher to get your tone.


With a 12au7 in V1, you'll get lucky to get any breakup in the overdrive channel, if I'm not mistaken. Of course, that might be exactly what you'd like to do. You might also discover that you don't have nearly as much volume as you'd like to have, though I think you still would get some good compression. I would recommend a 12ay7 in V1 and 12at7 in V3, which should still allow the amp to break-up, though not as much.

Those of you out there who are true tube experts, please don't hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong. But that's what I did with my Blues Deluxe Reissue, which doesn't have as much gain as a HotRod Deluxe.

I have the a 12au7 in mine and I still get breakup. V2 Penta, V3 sov. 12ax7 WC. TAD 6L6wgc-str power.. I speak from experience.


I think I see my mistake. I didn't have 6l6's in my amp. I changed them out for 6v6s tubes. These brought the volume and power down quite a bit. Thanks!


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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:32 am
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63supro wrote:
Cap47 wrote:
63supro wrote:
The 12AT7's will help some, but it will never be like say a Twin clean. It's a Hot Rod and made to breakup fairly early. About all you can do is crank back on the guitar volume and try some 12AT7's.

That was one of a million reasons I just sold mine.

Put a 12au7 in V1 and get the late breakup power tubes if you want cleans. The hotter the tube bias the less clean you will get. Bias at a mid setting say 60 to 65mv. You can run an EQ for boost to get your gain back up. You will find you can now turn your volume knob higher to get your tone.
Supro: How are you liking the new amp now?


Depending on the specs of the tube, 60-65mv may be way too cold. You need to know the plate voltage and bias at 70% dissipation. JJ's can handle 80mv or better.

If the amp is biased too cold your tone will really suffer. It will become brittle and sterile. The icepick in the forehead syndrome" that the HRD series are known for.

I would call Bob at www.Eurotubes.com and see what he recommends.Bob is seriously helpful and knowledgeable.


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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:49 am
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63supro wrote:
Cap47,
I am totally loving the Egnater. I've been sitting for hours creating new tones. No strange tones, ghost notes or tube rattles and speaker farting like the HRDlx. I can't get a bad tone from the Egnater amp. The funny thing is with my HRDlx, I had to change out the tubes right away. The stock GT's were horrible and went microphonic within a month. I was going to change out the speaker too but decided to sell the amp instead. The Egnater came stock with a full set of JJ's, Birch cabinets and a custom Celestion speaker. It's like I'm old school again and I'm totally diggin it. I tried my old Ibanez digital echo in the effects loop and the loop is really quiet. No hiss of any kind.

Thanks a lot for asking!


63supro ..... Sounds like you finally have something you can play without problems. :D {thumbs up}

Did you get the Rebel 20 head and one of their 1x12 cabinets, or the Rebel 30 combo?

Could you compare the different sounds you are getting with any other amp - to give us an idea what it sounds like. I feel like the demo sounds I have heard through my pc speakers (2 satellites with a woofer against the wall, on the floor) aren't really representative of the amp.

I have looked on youtube for demos and the ones I found usually have some young guy cranking it for max distortion, and that's where he leaves it. Then just uses the time to show us how fast he is. :roll: Big whoop. :roll:

A demo done by a guy that calls himself "The Tone King" was some better.
But I'm still wondering; (1) How well it does "clean" (2) The 'range' (for lack of a better term) of the tones and sounds it will do

Again - I am doubting the pc speakers ability to give the true sound.

Is the bias adjustable? And have you checked the factory bias to see if it's hot or cold? PCB or wired like the old amps?

I hope you don't mind the questions. It's just that this little amp is the first one I have heard of in a long time that has got my attention and interest.

Don't get me wrong - I still love my CT SE. But Fenders' actions of late have been a real turn off for me. (i.e. - their HUGE, HUGE price increases coupled with quality problems being reported, and the lawsuits too)

So .... Lets hear about your "new kid on the block". :D

(also - do you know if Egnater has a forum to take this to - since this is a Fender forum?) That's just in case certain individuals frown on the talk of this amp. (remember how "certain ones" tried to squelch the threads about Fenders HUGE price increases - I've got my own ideas about THAT :wink: )


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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:07 am
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rholloman,

The youtube demos do it no justice at all. I bought the heard and 1x12 matching cab. I tried it with other cabinets and I thought the Egnater cabinet was better voiced and tuned for the amp. I demoed the Rebel 30 too. It has a ton of features and is footswitchable, but I just liked the 20 better.

You can bias each set of tubes. They have check points and pots to adjust with. I didn't mess with it because it just sounds incredible. I did slide out the chassis to check the build quality and it's top rate. It looks like it's made for the long haul. There is a guy doing some chicken pickin on youtube that has a half decent sound. Computer speakers kind of kill it though.

The tones are fresh and new because of the tube blending, watts control ans bright and tight switches. A friend of mine used a HRDlx and this little 20 watter cuts like crazy. The HRDlx couldn't drown it out or sound as good.

If you have a GC around you, check one out. I haven't been this happy in years.


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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:19 am
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rholloman wrote:
[
A demo done by a guy that calls himself "The Tone King" was some better.
But I'm still wondering; (1) How well it does "clean" (2) The 'range' (for lack of a better term) of the tones and sounds it will do


The Tone King is a complete doofus.

He doesn't bother to learn the gain staging of the amp, preferring instead to use his stand-by method... i.e., turning all the knobs to 12 o'clock, which he hallucinates puts the amp in some kind of "neutral" mode. Despite all his chest pounding about being A trusted source." his demos aren't worth the time it takes to watch them.

As a result he comes away from the Rebel scratching his head, thinking that most of the controls have no affect on the sound. This is because he didn't learn to use it.

I've got one, too, and while I'm sure the forum is sick of hearing me and 63Supro go on about them, they are frankly amazing.

Here's a demo of mine... Strat-style w/EMG SV's --> Barber Tone Press --> Egnater Rebel 20 -- open back Mojo cab with a 12" EMinence Red Fang.

http://tinyurl.com/qoyvqn


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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:28 am
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63supro wrote:
rholloman,

The youtube demos do it no justice at all. I bought the heard and 1x12 matching cab. I tried it with other cabinets and I thought the Egnater cabinet was better voiced and tuned for the amp. I demoed the Rebel 30 too. It has a ton of features and is footswitchable, but I just liked the 20 better.

You can bias each set of tubes. They have check points and pots to adjust with. I didn't mess with it because it just sounds incredible. I did slide out the chassis to check the build quality and it's top rate. It looks like it's made for the long haul. There is a guy doing some chicken pickin on youtube that has a half decent sound. Computer speakers kind of kill it though.

The tones are fresh and new because of the tube blending, watts control ans bright and tight switches. A friend of mine used a HRDlx and this little 20 watter cuts like crazy. The HRDlx couldn't drown it out or sound as good.

If you have a GC around you, check one out. I haven't been this happy in years.


You have perked my curiosity - to say the least. :D

There isn't a GC (guitar center I guess) close to me. The closest is in a neighboring city. And he isn't a dealer that I would want to do ANY business with. If you get my drift.

But now - You made it sound so appealing, that I'm afraid to go try one. I might have to have it and then I would have to make another bill. :lol: :lol:

Best for me to wait until I have the cash in hand. :)

Still - thanks for the info. I look forward to hearing more on this little amp.
Sounds like it could be a "Giant Killer". :wink: (so-to-speak)


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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:56 am
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SlapChop wrote:
rholloman wrote:
[
A demo done by a guy that calls himself "The Tone King" was some better.
But I'm still wondering; (1) How well it does "clean" (2) The 'range' (for lack of a better term) of the tones and sounds it will do


The Tone King is a complete doofus.

He doesn't bother to learn the gain staging of the amp, preferring instead to use his stand-by method... i.e., turning all the knobs to 12 o'clock, which he hallucinates puts the amp in some kind of "neutral" mode. Despite all his chest pounding about being A trusted source." his demos aren't worth the time it takes to watch them.

As a result he comes away from the Rebel scratching his head, thinking that most of the controls have no affect on the sound. This is because he didn't learn to use it.

I've got one, too, and while I'm sure the forum is sick of hearing me and 63Supro go on about them, they are frankly amazing.

Here's a demo of mine... Strat-style w/EMG SV's --> Barber Tone Press --> Egnater Rebel 20 -- open back Mojo cab with a 12" EMinence Red Fang.

http://tinyurl.com/qoyvqn


Now that you mention it - I think you are right!
He did turn the tone knobs to "12 oclock", and I remember the head scratching at the end too. Still, his was the best I heard - at least until I clicked on your link.

Reaction?? ..................

WOW!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Yours sounds like a completely different amp than those other demos I heard!

It sounds like .... like .... well, I don't know .... maybe a mix of some of Fenders best, plus some more!!

Like 63supro said - something new.

I'm guessing that was you with the Rebel playing the lead?? Right?

I didn't know what a Barber Tone Press was - so I looked it up - a compressor - right? It didn't sound like, to my ears, a compressor was being used. I didn't hear the "clicks" in the notes. Sounded nice and smooth.

The sound may be new - but your demo sounds great, to me. :) {thumbs up}
Great playing!! :!:


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