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Post subject: weird "furnace" noise with Pro Junior
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:12 pm
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has anyone ever heard the sound that results when air/wind blows into the flame on a gas stove, or bunsen burner, etc.? i guess pretty much a gas-fed flame. i cant think of how else to describe that sound unfortunately, it's not quite white noise, it's different. it also kind of sounds like a gas furnace or a broiler when the burners light.

anyway, i'm hearing that kind of sound when i turn on my PJ. its about a week old, this is the second time i've turned it on. same results the first time i used it.

is this normal? sorry, i'm new to tubes. i hope nothing is wrong here...thanks guys.


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Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:28 pm
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There are a couple things you could be hearing, the most likely of which is the simple sound of electronic interference. The PJ is not known as a terribly quiet amp, and most of them tend to hiss a bit. This noise can be infuriating in the bedroom or the basement, but is not noticeable when playing at high volume. It happened to me as well, and no one seems fully capable of taming the beast. New tubes do help though, as does a good power supply and the absence of fluorescent lights and computer monitors.

The other possibility that comes easily to mind is single-coil hum. Single coil pickups are inherently noisy. Does the amp continue to make noise if you turn the guitar's volume all the way down? If it gets quieter as you manipulate the guitar's volume pot then it's single-coil noise -- or, perhaps, a bad shielding job on the guitar.

Any chance you could better describe the sound and what happens to it as you manipulate controls on the amp and the guitar?


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Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:37 am
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I know that sound. For me it was the beginnings of preamp tube failure.

I hate to be definitive about a diagnosis without actually hearing the amp myself. But in reading that description, it immediately brought to mind the sound I heard when I had a preamp tube leaking.

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Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:36 am
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Vulkan, i think you are referring to the white noise hiss and the ground buzz. that's not what i'm getting at. this noise is not a constant sound, it is intermittent. it basically sounds like someone is lighting a welding torch or a bunsen burner or a gas stove-top.
btw, i did manage to cure the buzz with the top center screw as everyone talks about. and i do not really have any single coil hum because i use Lace Sensor's

Shredd, that really upsets me if true, i got it last week, and i've only turned it on twice. if you've seen my rants about lack of fender quality control and inproportionate price inflation, now you know why i get so pissed and talk that way on a fender forum. did they give me half-dead tubes or something? ridiculous...

well, i'll see if i can manage to get a sound clip available, but i can't promise that unfortunately. the above descriptions are the best i can give.
well, i guess i might be taking it to GC. unbelieveable...either the fender inspectors are deaf or they dont care about good quality


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Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:07 am
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Hey dude, I gotta tell you, it wouldn't be the fault of Fender as much as it would be the fault of modern tube manufacturers.

When I was on the Mesa forum, I always told the story of my modern Tung Sol experience. I bought a whole set of them from GC, and 4 of them were DOA. I took them back, exchanged them for 4 more, and 2 of those were DOA. I have permanently banned any modern Tung Sol from being within 50 ft, of any of my amps. The NOS Tung Sols are way primo though.

My point is, don't be so surprised if it does so happen to be a preamp tube or power tube. It's possible that during shipping one could have been knocked around a little too much for what it could handle. It's not something that's noticeable simply by looking at it. I'm sure the place you bought it from would be willing to replace any bad tube under warranty.

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Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:28 am
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Before buying a tube, check and make sure you're not buying yet another EH tube made in the same Russian factory, but with another trademark purchased by Mike Matthews printed on it. You'd be amazed how many brands are the same junk with different labeling, all made cheap-as-free in the "Sovtek" plant.

JJ/Tesla and Winged "C" are still a good bet.


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Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:57 am
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well, you're probably right, i guess i let my bad experience get to me. what should be causing great mirth and joy is already letting me down, and i got a bit heated.

anyway, if its just the tube(s), then thats cool, as long as it/they gets replaced for free at the store. and i dont feel like going through another process of getting a whole new amp.

im guessing the amp is fine because i was playing all the while (not really knowing what the heck was going on) and i didnt notice anything impeding on the sound or signal. it sounds great to me, so it could just be a tube issue...i hope. i suppose if anybody is to blame, it might be UPS, i was nervous from the start having the amp delivered to me.

anyway, would you suggest i take the amp to the store now (considering its under warranty), or wait until something goes down, such as "the bad tube" blowing?


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Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:34 am
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Why wait? I'd take it down there and let them listen to the problem in person. Matbe a tech will have a different diagnosis of what it is. I'm just going by a written explanation.

The sooner the better, in my opinion.

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Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:40 am
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I'm still not sure what noise you're describing -- I certainly haven't heard anything similar coming from my PJ -- but I think you should take it in if you're the least bit concerned. Play it for someone who knows valve amps and get a professional opinion; if it's buggered, than you can easily get it fixed.


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Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:31 am
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well, i took her up to GC and had a manager listen to it. listening again made me wonder if my verbal description above hits the nail on the head. it is tough to describe, it sounds somewhat like a static-y sound at the same time. he called it "tube sizzle" if that means anything to anyone.

anyway, it MAY be fixed now. the tubes weren't plugged in all the way, so he pushed them in. (being a tube newb, i didn't realize this and also let him do the pushing in of the tubes so i wouldnt mess something up and void a warranty). so after he did that, fired the amp up again and i sat and listened awhile. i heard a couple spurts of the noise, but for the next 5-10 min. after i didnt hear anything. so that's a good sign, considering that i remember hearing the noise as soon as i would turn it on originally.

he said the exposed leads could be acting as antennae and picking up interference. (as a side note, i live near a AM Radio station, so that holds water)

so i'll keep checking on it with a close ear. he welcomed me back should anything pop up (considering the warranty of course). but i'm crossing my fingers nothing else happens because i don't look forward to more trips to that store, its a fair drive from my house.

thanks for the help.

(it'd be funny if that manager was a member here reading this. thanks again scott if you are)

Vulkan, to be honest, i'm not sure if i have the best description anyhow. its the best i could conjure up. at the same time, it was like a periodic static-y sound. don't go crazy over it, really haha. in your defense, the manager said its the first time he's heard such a sound. anyway, as you can see, the problem MAY be fixed. thanks so far.


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Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:04 am
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msvolpe wrote:
(as a side note, i live near a AM Radio station, so that holds water)


That's funny. I have an old Danelectro compressor that likes to pick up AM radio. Whenever it's in my chain I can hear the CBC coming through my amp; if I remove it, the radio goes away too.

msvolpe wrote:
Vulkan, to be honest, i'm not sure if i have the best description anyhow. its the best i could conjure up. at the same time, it was like a periodic static-y sound. don't go crazy over it, really haha. in your defense, the manager said its the first time he's heard such a sound. anyway, as you can see, the problem MAY be fixed. thanks so far.


Good to hear! Describing sound, particularly sounds that are not exactly common, is notoriously difficult. I think my problem arose from the fact that my own amps haven't made any sound remotely similar. Good luck though, I hope you get everything sorted!


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Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:54 am
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yea we'll see what happens.

since my last post, BillM (you may know him for his blues jr. mods) on the FDP squashed the "antenna theory", and he's probably more reliable a source than a GC employee... :roll: (just kidding scott, little forum musician humor there)

anyway, BillM did however say that the improper seating of the tubes probably did it, not for the interference, but that it causes incomplete connection (obviously!)

here's to crossing fingers


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Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:17 pm
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It sounded like a tube issue to me.

I thought you did a good job describing the sound. When I read the description that it was like blowing on a flame, I had an idea of what you were talking about.

Sometimes when you buy tubes, there comes those times when only half of the triode is dead or bad, and that's the sound you'll usually hear. It's impossible to see by looking at the tube, you would have to have a tube tester to know for sure.

It's possible that one wasn't seated all the way, and half of a tube wasn't firing properly. Much like an extremely mismatched half dead triode.

The important thing is that the GC was willing to make things right, helped you out, and you can enjoy your amp the way you were hoping to.

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Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:19 am
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well, the dreaded evil sound is still here...wish it could have done that BEFORE I LEFT THE STORE THE OTHER NIGHT :x

EDIT: i read somewhere that a possible cause could be "filter caps breaking in" and that it can take a few hours to do. can anyone concur to that?

Shredd, you said you had a similar experience, and i'm just curious of something. try to temporarily forget about my situation and my descriptions, and then do you think you could recall your experiences with the leaking preamp tube? try to best describe the sounds you heard, and try not to reference my description, unless of course i was as accurate as possible, but i'm curious to hear your own wording.
-what did it sound like?
-how frequent it occurred?
-were you still able to play through the amp? guitar signal affected/unaffected?

i know its a strange request, but it'd be helpful and appreciated.


at any rate, i'm going to try to record the sound tonight and i will post it when i do. hopefully i still have some interest from you guys. please stay tuned!

thanks alot


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