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Post subject: New Blues Jr
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 4:06 pm
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Just got a new Blues Jr and love it. I need some advice on the volumn vs the master volumn controls. I think I understand that the volumn control is basically signal gain or line input and the master volumn is speaker output. Is that correct? So with my 65 Jag, where would I want to set my volumn control? Do I want alot of "gain" and then adjust the master volumn for the needs of the room or what? Thanks for the info....


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Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 4:44 pm
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Awesome amp, congrats :D

Yes - You could say the volume knob is sort of like a gain control. At higher levels the amp really breaks up nicely. The master can be thought of as actually how loud it's at.

Not sure what you'd like with a jag - everyone likes different sounds. If you play around with things I'm sure you'll eventually find something you like.


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Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 4:54 pm
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Thanks for the reply....by "breaking up" do you mean distort?
I bought my 65 Jag new off the factory showroom so that dates me. Basically, I'm into classic rock and some country lead work. I have messed with the amp settings and you're right in how versatile the sound is. I think I got myself a good one....thanks again. And any advice is appeciated.


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Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 4:56 pm
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Here's sort of an example of what will happen as you twiddle the volume controls (12 being full, 0 being off):

Volume 3, Master 12 -- you'll get a nice clean sound at high volume.

Volume 5, Master 8 -- some blues-type breakup at slightly reduced volume.

Volume 9, Master 12 -- a pleasing rock sound at club volume.

Volume 12, Master 2 -- think Neil Young & Crazy Horse at bedroom volume.

The guitar itself doesn't matter too much; the amp will still break up the higher you turn the volume. It's up to you to find tones that work well with the sort of music you like...


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Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:42 pm
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Thanks Vulcan
I tried those settings and that helped alot.


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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 12:11 am
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No problem! The easiest way to think of a master volume is to, perhaps counterintuitively, crank it all the way on -- when your neighbours aren't around, of course -- and then find the tone you want using the volume and EQ controls. Then you can back off the master to find the overall volume that you want; in essence, it controls the actual loudness of the amp, whereas the volume knob controls its sound. I'm not sure if you noticed or not, but if you pin the master volume and incrementally increase the volume, the amp won't get much louder after "6" or so. I have a Pro Junior and once I hit about 5 of 12, it distorts more but doesn't get appreciably louder. The PJ doesn't have a master control -- all it has are "volume" and "tone" -- but its certainly a nice feature for bedroom playing. Another thing you can do, which is useful on my PJ, is use an overdrive pedal. Set the amp so it's very, very quiet, and then adjust the volume and drive controls on your pedal to get a decent tone at low volume. It nullifies the tonal perfection of the EL84s breaking up, but is fine for late night or apartment playing. Keep playing around, and let us know how you make out!


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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:42 am
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Will do....I haven't gotten much into effects pedals, I only have a tuner. That looks like a whole other world of sounds. I looked into a Line 6 multiple effects set up but got way confused. It will probably be best for me to start with a couple of simple effects like distort and delay then if that's all the variations I need I'll stop there.
Hey thanks again.


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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 8:55 am
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Last edited by billco on Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 10:16 am
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Billco
I probably didn't explain the usage of the amp. I currently play in a Classic Rock group (bunch of boomers recapturing their youth) and a contemporary Christian praise band. I will be using this amp on stage with both of these groups. It replaces an aged, worn out amp owned by a friend. I will be micing the amp for the PA system and I wanted to get to know the nuances of the amp for all settings. I will also use it to practice at home with, so volumn is important if I want to keep my marriage and be allowed in the neighborhood. Plus I plan on using it with my Martin acoustic (with a I/O switch with both guitars attached) especially in church. I admit that there have been great strides in sound equipment since my rock days as a youth. So these are the main reasons for getting the Blues Jr and seeking advice. (Also could you explain "SS")
Thanks for your input!


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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 10:40 am
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Last edited by billco on Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject:
Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 10:52 am
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billco wrote:
Vulkan wrote:
No problem! The easiest way to think of a master volume is to, perhaps counterintuitively, crank it all the way on -- when your neighbours aren't around, of course -- and then find the tone you want using the volume and EQ controls. Then you can back off the master to find the overall volume that you want; in essence, it controls the actual loudness of the amp, whereas the volume knob controls its sound. I'm not sure if you noticed or not, but if you pin the master volume and incrementally increase the volume, the amp won't get much louder after "6" or so. I have a Pro Junior and once I hit about 5 of 12, it distorts more but doesn't get appreciably louder. The PJ doesn't have a master control -- all it has are "volume" and "tone" -- but its certainly a nice feature for bedroom playing. Another thing you can do, which is useful on my PJ, is use an overdrive pedal. Set the amp so it's very, very quiet, and then adjust the volume and drive controls on your pedal to get a decent tone at low volume. It nullifies the tonal perfection of the EL84s breaking up, but is fine for late night or apartment playing. Keep playing around, and let us know how you make out!



With all due respect, and not wanting to instigate a flame war, please explain the mindset of owning a tube amp if the majority or all of the playing is going to be with the volume set "very low" using a pedal for overdrive. May as well use SS and save yourself the extra acquisition cost and maintentance of going tubes.


No problem. I own a tube amp because I love the sound of it. When my band gigs or rehearses, I can turn it up and let the great sounds out of it. Indeed, I can do that when no one else is around. Sometimes though, we're limited by budget or other factors to one amp. Others might argue that a SS amp, like a GDEC perhaps, would best suit this situation; I disagree. Using an OD pedal as I described above is a great way to make a small tube combo -- or any tube amp, really -- without a master volume control suitable for apartment, or quiet, playing. This negates then, the need to buy a practice amp for home. Trust me though, I'll crank the thing up every chance I get.

Billco, I'm not a bedroom player by any means. I play in a band and we rehearse once or twice a week, and gig once or twice a month. I love the sound of my PJ for gigging and I also own several solid state amps -- a Peavey Bandit 65, among others. Nevertheless, I like the PJ best and by using an OD pedal I can make it suitable for home use. I agree it doesn't sound as good as raucous tube breakup, but I know most of the time that I'll be able to crank it up within the next few days at rehearsal or gigs...


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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 11:25 am
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Last edited by billco on Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject:
Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 12:58 pm
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billco wrote:
Vulkan wrote:
billco wrote:
Vulkan wrote:
No problem! The easiest way to think of a master volume is to, perhaps counterintuitively, crank it all the way on -- when your neighbours aren't around, of course -- and then find the tone you want using the volume and EQ controls. Then you can back off the master to find the overall volume that you want; in essence, it controls the actual loudness of the amp, whereas the volume knob controls its sound. I'm not sure if you noticed or not, but if you pin the master volume and incrementally increase the volume, the amp won't get much louder after "6" or so. I have a Pro Junior and once I hit about 5 of 12, it distorts more but doesn't get appreciably louder. The PJ doesn't have a master control -- all it has are "volume" and "tone" -- but its certainly a nice feature for bedroom playing. Another thing you can do, which is useful on my PJ, is use an overdrive pedal. Set the amp so it's very, very quiet, and then adjust the volume and drive controls on your pedal to get a decent tone at low volume. It nullifies the tonal perfection of the EL84s breaking up, but is fine for late night or apartment playing. Keep playing around, and let us know how you make out!



With all due respect, and not wanting to instigate a flame war, please explain the mindset of owning a tube amp if the majority or all of the playing is going to be with the volume set "very low" using a pedal for overdrive. May as well use SS and save yourself the extra acquisition cost and maintentance of going tubes.


No problem. I own a tube amp because I love the sound of it. When my band gigs or rehearses, I can turn it up and let the great sounds out of it. Indeed, I can do that when no one else is around. Sometimes though, we're limited by budget or other factors to one amp. Others might argue that $@! amp, like a GDEC perhaps, would best suit this situation; I disagree. Using an OD pedal as I described above is a great way to make a small tube combo -- or any tube amp, really -- without a master volume control suitable for apartment, or quiet, playing. This negates then, the need to buy a practice amp for home. Trust me though, I'll crank the thing up every chance I get.

Billco, I'm not a bedroom player by any means. I play in a band and we rehearse once or twice a week, and gig once or twice a month. I love the sound of my PJ for gigging and I also own several solid state amps -- a Peavey Bandit 65, among others. Nevertheless, I like the PJ best and by using an OD pedal I can make it suitable for home use. I agree it doesn't sound as good as raucous tube breakup, but I know most of the time that I'll be able to crank it up within the next few days at rehearsal or gigs...



Obviously you understand what I am referring to, and for you, it is a financial decision. Fair enough, although one might add the cost of short cycling tubes may or may not negate the cost of a cheap SS for practice, with practice defined as being just that; learning the licks, phrasing, and technique, not perfecting tone and hiding poor playing behind effects. That being said, maybe you too have noticed how many people who either live in an apartment or close proximately to others buying high powered tube amps that never leave the house. And then they advise others to buy a high powered tube amp and use a pedal for distortion for home playing. It defies simple logic.

My apologies, I didn’t mean to hijack the thread. It just befuddles me as to some of the responses in these forums. Please carry on with the regularly scheduled program!

Cheers!!


Billco,

I'm not sure exactly what it is you're trying to elucidate. I was merely suggesting that finances could, in some cases, play a role. My own situation has nothing to do with money or moderating practice volume. In fact, almost 100% of my playing done at home is done on an acoustic guitar. This is because acoustic instruments are harder to play and, consequently, tend to assist in developing more quickly than any electric. Nevertheless, I don't seem to understand what your objection to people buying tube amps and not using them "to their full potential." The entire point of this thread concerned the use of -- and not the purchase of -- a Blues Junior which, it might be said, is not a high powered tube amp. Yes, it can definitely disturb neighbours, and yes it can get loud. All I was doing is offering solutions to the guitar player's conundrum: notably, how to use one amp in a variety of situations. I offered practical solutions without providing judgment on the relative merits of each. Amps, in my humblest of opinions, are meant to be played; volume is not necessarily the most important thing -- playing is.


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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 1:07 pm
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Hey Billco

I sort of agree and disagree. I fall into that bedroom (actually basement) player with a high powered tube amp catagory. But my amp may not fit the description of what you have in mind.

I'll try to explain. Most tube amps in my experience, with exceptions of coarse, do not have good enough preamps to sound good at bedroom levels, they need the power amp coloration to make them come to life. With a solid state amp, it will only sound as good as its preamp, no coloration really comes from the power section. SS power sections just seem to reproduce what comes into them. When they clip, they do it abruptly and harshly. A good solid state amp relies more on its preamp to sound good. A high powered tube amp can be designed to work great at bedroom level and there are high powered tube amps that do.

Back to the preamp, to me at practice levels, this is the key to good tone. I use high gain multichannel tube preamps, and absolutely love them. They gerarally have more tone adjustment as well, such as a graphic eq after the parametric generic eq's high mid and low. I can plag them into almost any amp and get wonderful tone at prctice levels. To me you can't beat the natural breakup and harmonics of tube distortion. I have never heard a stomp box sound as good, but it has been awhile since I have tried them. In fact I always preferred the built in preamp distortions on amps to stomp boxes, even on SS amps. The extra eq goes a long way to dial out rather uninspiring bass and trable response

I mainly play with my tube preamps into my SS practice amp, and I get good tone. My high powered tube power amp still sounds warmer and fatter at low volume though. I got the tube power amp after owning a nice SS power amp for a few years, and it was an improvement imho.

I think it comes down to budget, if you can afford it a good tube amp will sound better in all applications. If you are on a budget, a solid state amp may provide you with the most versatile practice amp tones

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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 5:21 pm
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Back to the topic, a good effect pedal for you to check out would be the wah-wah. There's many different kinds. Hope this helps. :D

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