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Post subject: Super-Sonic: does it have tube reverb?
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:54 pm
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I was reading some reviews on harmonycentral.com, and two of the reviewers said that the Super-Sonic combo amp has tube driven reverb. However, I don't see any mention of tube-driven reverb in the description of the amp on Fender's website, or anywhere else. This is probably just a mistake on the part of the reviewers, but I might be wrong. Any thoughts?
:?


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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:09 pm
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From the specs - http://www.fender.com/products//search.php?partno=2160500400 - listed under features -

Spring Reverb,
Dual Cascading-Gain Preamp Overdrive,
Effects Loop with Send Level & Return Level,
Pre-Amp Out Jack,
Power Amp In Jack,
3-Button Footswitch,
Two Speaker Output Jacks (for Internal + Extension Speaker),
Standby Switch,
3/4" Birch/Maple Plywood Cabinet,
Tilt Back Legs

I would say it's like all of the rest of the combo amps with reverb - it uses a spring reverb.

I've never played with one, just my 2 cents. Hope this helps.

Gil 8)

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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:40 pm
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Having some spare time, I looked at the schematics for the Twin Amp (Pro Tube) and Pro Reverb (Pro Tube) - there are no schematics of the Super-Sonic series that I can see.

The Reverb in those are clearly driven by tubes, where as in the Blues Deluxe and the Blues Jr they are not. I also looked at the Deluxe Reverb - it is another tube driven reverb - it is clear in the schematic.

So I would say, that the reviewers are probably correct.

Schematics are available at http://www.fender.com/support/amplifier_schematics.php

Gil 8)

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Where ever you go, there you are

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Yume - 2006 Squier Strat Cherryburst
Houbi - 2008 Fender VG Strat Blizzard Pearl - won here
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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:28 pm
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Hi reflexbc - Unfortunately, the marketing material from Fender is not always consistent, or overly informative when it comes to the specs of Fender amps.

All of these amps have tube-driven reverb, but here`s how Fender describes them:
`65 Twin Reverb - "Fender Reverb"
`65 Deluxe Reverb - "Tube Driven Fender Reverb"
Super-SOnic combo - "Spring Reverb"

The easy way to confirm the reverb is tube-driven is when the amp has two 12AT7 tubes, like all the amps noted above. When they do have two 12aT7 , you are almost certain that reverb is tube-driven. As a proof of this for the super-sonic, look at he specs of the super-sonic head- it doesn`t have any reverb and only has one 12aT7 pre-amp tube.

By tube driven reverb, it means that the tube is driving the "spring reverb" box and has its own "power" if you will. Tube-driven reverb have not only more "reverb" than non-tube drive (i.e. Hot Rod Series), but the presence of the guitar is not lost in the reverb as you turn it up, which is not the case with the Hot Rod series (as you turn it up, you loose the guitar`s presence).

Hope this provides clarity.

Tweed Dog Steve


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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:07 am
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Thanks, Tweed Dog, you seem to be pretty knowledable about this amp. One comment I have is, Why the hell didn't they include reverb on the Super-Sonic head?? This just seems like such a huge negative to what would otherwise be a very cool amp. Interestingly enough, I just re-checked the specs for the head, which say that it does have two 12AT7 tubes. The other thing is, I think that a lot of people get all stoked about "tube reverb" (including me), without really understanding what it really does, or sounds like. I have the Epiphone Blues Custom 30, which has tube reverb, and it has this really silky, dark reverb tail that just kind of hangs in the air, yet doesn't interfere with the guitar sound. I kind of thought that all tube reverbs sounded like that. Then again, I played the Fender '65 Twin Reverb reissue, which has tube reverb, and it didn't sound anything like the Blues Custom's reverb.
I think, to answer my own question, tube reverb tends to sound smoother and interfere less with the guitar sound. Listening carefully to the reverb on my Super-Sonic, I would say it definitely fulfills those criteria. I guess in the end, it doesn't matter if the reverb if tube-driven or not, as long as it sounds good to me, which it does.
Peace. :)


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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:37 pm
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Oh my, you are right, the head does have two 12AT7's in there, but only five 12AX7 as opposed to six for the combo. I thought that the V9 tube position was for the Reverb send stage, that is why I thought there would only be one 12AT7 in the head as this tube is usually the "reverb tube". Anyway, you know why know that the head is short one pre-amp tube from the combo.


Regarding reverb in the head, I hear ya. I am honestly one that would have gone with the head and 2X12 cabinet if reverb would have been in the head, but went with the combo instead as I didn't want to use a stupid effect pedal for reverb, of paid another $600 for the Fender 63 reverb box in addition to the SS head & cabinet.

No hard feeling against Fender on that one though, very happy with the combo.


Tweed Dog Steve


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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:58 pm
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Hi folks,

The inconsistency in terminology is simply due to the fact that some of those amps were developed (and written about) many years ago.

Amps like the '65 reissues and the Super-Sonic combos have tube-driven spring Reverb. The circuit has tubes, and the reverb delay/decay effect is created with a spring pan. Fender has been doing it this way since the early 1960s, so fans of vintage Fenders prefer this method.

Tube amps like the Hot Rod series have a similar spring pan, but the circuits are driven with solid-state components. This is one reason why these tube amps are more affordable than the reissue type. If you are like most people, you set your reverb on "2" or "3" so you might not hear the difference. If you are really into Surf or Blues or Pink Floyd or something, and you use more Reverb, you may prefer the sound of the older tube-driven method.

Amps with DSP effects (FM DSP series, Cyber series, G-DEC series, etc) have digital reverb, so there is no "spring" involved.

Finally, we decided not to add reverb to the SS head because the head would have to be MUCH taller and deeper than the Bassman/Showman/Tone-Master approach. I am guessing that most people who use heads & cabs are gigging, already own lots of effects, plus they are using a PA system and can add reverb that way, too.

Hope this helps!

Shane


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