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Post subject: Fender Cyber Twin SW - Midi Capabilities
Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 6:28 pm
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Greetings everyone,

Hey guys,

I've had a fender cyber twin SE for about 2 years now, but have never used the MIDI functionality of the unit. Now that I'm stating to explore it's power/capability more - I have a few questions.

I'm looking to purchase a MIDI pedal this weekend. Here are the two I'm deciding between:

Roland FC-300:
http://www.bananasmusic.com/productd...oot-Controller

and

Behringer FCB1010
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...10.html?cat=33

Honestly, I'm not well versed in MIDI to begin with though I do know it's basic concept. (IE: It transmits data - not sound). However there is a feature on the Roland that states it is capable of "bi-directional MIDI data flow." What does that mean exactly? And can the Fender Cyber Twin SE support this feature? Otherwise I'm going with the Behringer which is half the price.

Any useful information pertaining to MIDI in general, or to this amp is greatly appreciated as well.

Lastly, I'm definitely open to different midi controllers. If you guys have one that you prefer... I keep an open mind. Let me know what you guys think!

Thanks in advanced,
Brandon


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Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 7:10 pm
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Take a look at: http://www.generalcybersystems.com/GCSWebSite/Index.htm you might find this software pretty useful. Lots of good info too.

As for the foot controllers, the Fender Cyber Foot Controller only sends data (actually they are commands) to the Cyber Twin. A foot controller with bi directional MIDI is useless in for this, it only needs to send data. All the "programming" is in the Cyber Twin, there's really nothing to program in the Fender Cyber Foot Controller.

I know the Behringer works, but you have to set it up to emulate the Fender Cyber Foot Controller. I could not get into the other site you mentioned, seems down, can't comment.

Ciao,
Johnny.


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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 9:08 am
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Hi Brandon

Like Johnny said all the foot controller does is turn on a patch that is already in the cyber twin. The foot pedals control what ever you have programed in that patch... Which is cool because once a patch is tweaked to your sound, just hit the button and there is the sound.... Play a different tune hit a different button there is the sound for that tune.... Play a 100 different songs have a 100 different sounds....

A lot of guys run the Behringer FCB1010... E bay usually has 1 or 2 Fender Cyber Foot controllers for sale...

It sounds like your ready to Explore what the Cyber Twin can really do... to unlock it's secrets.... Inside the Fender Cyber Twin is a whole new world of sounds.... Your Sounds....

You have no idea what you have sitting there next to you.... To understand the Cyber Twin you need Cyber Commander to open up whats really going on inside the amp... To have all of the Cyber Twins secrets displayed on your computer screen... Then with just a few mouse clicks your able to tweak a sound till it is your sound.... Then save it either in the amp or in your computer.... share it with other Cyber Twiners.... The possibility's are endless....

With the Cyber Twin amp and a Foot Controller all being run by Cyber Commander you can assign a task to the foot pedals so your hands are free to play.... Try tweaking an Effect with out missing a beat on your guitar with any thing else.... With a mouse click your foot controller is Tweaking another parameter of an effect all while your still playing.... No more bending over cranking on a knob.... Just have Cyber Commander do it with your foot pedal....

Once you've found that special tone save it and it's yours forever.... But does that sound go with all your tunes??? Each song needs it's own sound... The Cyber Twin amp, the Foot Controller and Cyber Commander give's you the opportunity to have a special sound for each and every one of your songs.... Just program it in hit a button on the foot controller and your playing the song with the perfect sound for that song....next song next button....How cool is that....

How many times have you been standing there thinking I have everything set up just right for the first song at 125bpm..... Delay has just the right amount of repeats reverb tails off at the end of each measure.... But the next song is 100bpm... so now you have to many repeats on the delay the reverb tails bleed in to the next measure.... If you could only walk over tweak the knobs on the amp tweak your pedal board between songs life would be great.... So why not do that at home then all you do is song one button one song two button two life is great.....

Well I'll get off my soap box.... Hope this helps....JakeJ


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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 11:48 am
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Thanks so much for the info guys!


I'm glad to know that the Roland midi food pedal isn't going to help in this situation. But I still have one question; what does bi direction midi support enable you to do?

Otherwise - I'm really psyched about the cybertwin SE midi programmer! This thing looks amazing! I'm very confident in my purchase to save the extra cash from the roland and invest it into the cyber programmer.

Johnny when you said you have to setup the Behringer to emulate the Fender Cyber Foot Controller, is that a difficult process really?

Lastly, is there a midi interface you guys would recommend for the cyber programmer?

Thanks so much again guys!!!


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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 2:36 pm
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Hi Brandon

Let see Bi direction midi support means your Cyber Twin amp will talk to your computer and your computer will talk to the amp... I think???

All the Foot controller does is talk to the amp the amp does not talk to the foot controller....

As for a midi interface I am using the M-Audio Midisport 2X2 USB... 2 Midi cables to the AMP...In and Out....and one Midi Cable to the Foot Controller Out....Works great have had no problems.... When I'm not at home I plug the Foot Controller in to the Midi in on the Cyber Twin and were good to go....

I know Johnny recommends the Edirol midi device so here are the instructions right out of the Cyber Commander Manuel....

We have tested the Roland Edirol UM-2EX USB-to-MIDI device and have found it to be satisfactory. Please note that Roland also supplies UM-2EX drivers. These drivers are essential for those computers that do not have MIDI drivers. We have tested and found these drivers to be satisfactory. Please note that the Edirol UM-2EX device has a switch that allows use of either the UM-2EX drivers or the existing MIDI drivers that came with your Windows PC. If the UM-2EX Edirol drivers are installed on your PC, the Advanced Driver switch on the UM-2EX must be set to On. Otherwise, leave the Advanced Driver switch set to Off. Once you set the switch, we recommend you tape in place to avoid inadvertent switching. Incorrect setting of this switch can cause MIDI communication problems.
All of the MIDI devices have at least an input (IN) or an output (OUT) port on them, or both. The Roland UM-2EX has one IN and two OUT ports (OUT 1 and OUT 2). To be able to connect these ports, you will have to pay close attention to how things connect physically. You will also need MIDI cables.
The MIDI cables are not included with the UM-2EX. We recommend that high quality MIDI cables be obtained, such as the MIDI cables provided by DigiFlex, DATAFLEX Series, NMIDI-XX (where XX is the length in feet). We recommend that each end of the MIDI cable be labeled. On one end of the cable, mark it as IN, on the other end, mark it as OUT. Then treat the labeled MIDI cable as if it were a MIDI device with one IN port and one OUT port.
All MIDI devices connect in a simple manner. A transmitting MIDI device always sends data to a receiving MIDI device, the transmitting MIDI device outputs its data on the OUT port and the receiving MIDI device receives the data on its IN port. The rule is this: connect the OUT from one MIDI device to the IN of the other MIDI device. If you do this, you will never have problems. By treating the MIDI cable as a MIDI device, and respecting the above IN-OUT MIDI connection rule, everything will connect properly.


As for the Behringer Foot Controller It looks pretty straight forward I downloaded there Manuel and it looks like you just need to know what Midi channel the amp needs for each function... IE: channel 7 for the Volume pedal....Channel 11 for the continuous controller pedal then for the presets.... Bank 01 Fender Custom shop Presets.... Bank 02 Players Lounge.... Bank 03 Your amp Collection Presets..... Then for each preset in each bank is numbered.... Bank 01 is C00 through C99..... Bank 02 is P00 through P99..... Bank 03 is A00 through A49

I'm sure there are some guys here on the Forum that knows more about setting up the Behringer Foot Controller....

So I'll let them go from here.....Jake


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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 3:55 pm
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Quote:
M-Audio Midisport 2X2 USB.


I'll look into this!

Quote:
So I'll let them go from here.....Jake


You've been extremely helpful Jake! Thank you!


I have a interesting scenario that I've discovered. Since the Cybertwin SE has two XLR outs, I have routed the outputs to my audio interface (Steinberg MR816CSX) I then disconnected my cabnit speakers from the amp of the cyber twin. From there the audio is recorded and processed by my computer. What I then decided to do was take outputs 3 and 4 from my audio interface and route it directly back to the speakers of my cybertwin. However the sound coming out of my speakers is very low because I need a power amp to boost the signal. Perhaps the bi directional midi support would be ideal in this situation? I dont know. But I am curious to see if anyone has done something similar to what I'm doing.


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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 10:33 pm
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Quote:
Which is cool because once a patch is tweaked to your sound, just hit the button and there is the sound.... Play a different tune hit a different button there is the sound for that tune.... Play a 100 different songs have a 100 different sounds....

I'm guessing this is the case when using the cyber commander software. On a gig and without a laptop running cyber commander, you're limited to the amount of foot pedal changes a foot controller will give you, correct? Certainly not a 100, giving the impression of unlimited sounds. I think the behringer may offer even more possibilities than the fender foot controller does, but I'm only guessing from reading the manuals. The behringer manual is a very tough and confusing read. Look for youtube videos on how to program that sucker. There is one particular good one, and even THAT is hard to follow.

Quote:
I then disconnected my cabnit speakers from the amp of the cyber twin.

No need to disconnect the speakers each time. You can simply hook up headphones to the amps headphone jack in the back and that will disable the speakers. You can even just stick in a 1/8" to 1/4" jack, such as is used on some headphones to make their jack compatable with 1/4", into the headphone hookup on the amp, without the actual headphones hooked up just to silence the speakers. Point being, no need to yank the speaker wires. As to the rest of it, I'll let someone else help you as never done that, which is in essence reamping the signal.

Dan


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Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 2:08 pm
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Guys, the Fender Cyber foot controller can access up to 128 settings. The trick of course, is remembering it all, and of course programming it all.

The Cyber foot controller can jump in banks of 10, those are the UP +10 and DOWN -10 buttons on the Fender Cyber Foot Controller. It's a good idea to develop your settings in banks of 10, say first 10 are surf, second 10 are blues, third 10 are rock'n'roll 50's, fourth 10 are rock'n'roll 60's, etc... This is easy to remember, in banks of 10, that is how I have programmed my foot controller. I typically use about 7-8 settings per bank. I have reserved bank 11 for performance specific effects, and bank 12 for special effects. In all, the Cyber Foot Controller maps all 100 of my Player's Lounge presets. I have some spares (Your Amp or Custom shop) that the foot controller controller can access, but I do not use them.

To program the foot controller midi map (it's called the MIDI Map because it is map of your foot controller program numbers to the presets you want to access), I would really, really recommend Cyber Commander. I programmed the MIDI Map manually and suffered, with Cyber Commander, it's completely visual, and is drag'n'drop, easy, easy, easy.

At the risk of beating my own drum, Cyber Commander opens up the Cyber Twin and makes it very easy to setup, program and use. Once you have tried Cyber Commander you'll never go back to "Manuel".

Ciao,
Johnny.


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Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 10:41 pm
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Very cool Johnny. Thanks for the clarification on the CT foot controller. I'm also gonna have to get the commander for the original CT. I have it bookmarked at work, but I must try this.

Dan


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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:18 pm
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Hey Johnny,

I purchased the Cyber Commander a couple weeks ago. It works great, though now I'm in the process of setting up an FC300 Roland Midi pedal to go along side my amp. First off, will your program work with other midi foot pedals, more specifically the Roland I was just talking about?

Secondly can you provide any help with programming a midi foot pedal like this? I know it's a bit outside your jurisdiction, but perhaps you can point me in a direction at least?

Thanks
Brandon


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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:05 pm
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Hi Brandon,

In our implementation of the Fender Cyber Controller MIDI port, Cyber Commander acts as a "pass-through". It isn't Cyber Commander you have to worry about, the Cyber Twin will respond to the foot controller if the foot controller behaves like Fender's Cyber Controller. If your foot controller doesn't emulate Fender's Cyber Controller, it'll "confuse" the Cyber Twin and the Cyber Twin will not respond.

We don't know much about the Roland, we would have buy one and try it out. But these things aren't hard to figure out, all foot controllers more-or-less do the same thing: they issue the same kinds of "program change control commands" (should almost pulg'n'play). The Cyber Commander manual provides detailed explanations how the MIDI part works (program change control, channel assignments etc...), Fender's manual provides specific MIDI implementation info, and Roland provides a manual on how to tweak.

One thing to remember: make sure the Cyber Twin's MIDI receive channel number is the "same" as the foot controller's transmit channel number. Cyber Commander default setting is to set the Cyber Twin receive channel to OMNI (receive all channels). The Fender Cyber Controller default is transmit channel is set to 1 always (on every power up it's reset to 1). This should ensure the master volume pedal works (its program number is universal for all volume pedals) Once that gets going, you have a shot at getting the rest going - a lot more details are covered in the Cyber Commander manual.

if you get really stuck, our customer support will certainly pitch in!

ciao,
johnny.


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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:14 pm
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Gotcha, I'll check your website for the manual for the cyber commander. When I click on the cyber commander manual for the cyber commander it gives me a registry error. Is the manual available for download on the website>


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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:32 pm
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just took a look at the roland manual. yep, you have to program it, not hard but there will be a bit of pain. there's a few things you have know:

control change for the volume pedal is 7 (this nearly universal), cannot be programmed on the cyber twin
the default "continuous controller pedal" is 11 (which can be re-programmed on the cyber twin), recommend you use 11
and effects on/off is 119 - but since the roland has no dedicated effects button, forget about using this unless you assign it to a button...
Program change is 0 to 127 (these are buttons to select the preset in the Cyber Twin), this should be assigned to the "buttons" to emulate the fender cybe controller.
there is no sysex, etc... on the fender cyber controller, so ignore this or you will get funny kinds of effects with the cyber twin and probably hang it up.
the "range" is always 0 to 127, use this range always.

and do not use the extra MIDI musical stuff - the Cyber Twin will not respond. this foot controller was created for use with roland's specific devices, so it's set up that way.

good luck,
johnny


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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:00 pm
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Johnny,

Thank you so much for your help! I really appreciate all your efforts... I know you've been a busy person on the forum here @ fender.

I do have one quandry though. I noticed that the roland pedal doesnt allow for any cc#'s past 95. I was looking trhough the fender cyber twin SE manual and noticed a majority of the CC #'s are in the 100's. Is this going to be a problem or will I be able to reassign the CC#'s in the cyber twin to a lower number?


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Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:07 pm
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sorry, went to bed early last night. tough day, was pretty beat.

there's only one cc# above 95, it is 119 and that is used for the tap tempo. what you are talking about is the range. the range has to be 0 to 127 to take full advantage of the volume pedal (cc#7), continuous controller pedal (cc#16). the roland pedal supports this so you should be ok.

ciao,
johnny.


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