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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:27 pm
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Here I am...... posting my own (not real copper anymore) 2 cents:
As a pro, I can't afford to be on stage and have something dump on me in the middle of a gig, even though it happens.... inevitably. The way I get around this (to minimize the problem) is to have 2 amps and 2 guitars with me along with spare parts, such as extra tubes.
I'm sure no one feels 'baptized in a hot oil' until you've busted a string in the middle of a tune, LIVE... on stage; not just during practice or jamming. The lighter the gauge and the harder you play, the more likely this will happen no matter how often you change your strings, although string age and a LOT of stretching-bending-whammy-dives & string yanking puts extra stress on any brand-gauge-type of strings. Even with a spare guitar, it may be awkward (but necessary) to switch in the midst of a song. It is almost always: Things are going fine, then comes your lead in the song bridge..... you start in playing with a big smile after putting in hours of practice to get it right and TH-WANG! (hot oil baptism) You feel like a stupid jerk and you couldn't be anymore embarrassed if your belt broke and your pants fell down. (Now: Back to amp problems.)

Most guitarists feel that only the TUBE can deliver the true sound that we all crave, even though we all know it can die when we need it the most. I used to spend gobs of money on the best tubes and have the entire array of them checked as often as reasonably possible, but those 'tube checker' days are gone along with the TV repair shops. Then I found that amps with EL84's had more "Life in them" than 6L6's, but down the road I began to use amps that were hybrid and only had one pre-amp tube. My load of spares (12AX7's and the like) suddenly got smaller. No more power tubes nor an even bigger rectifier tube taking up room in my ATA briefcase. :-)

For Fender specifically: A few years ago, I found a really nice low-cost HSS Sunburst Strat in a music store, tried it out and bought it. The sound and action was so nice that I sunk more money into a bunch of up-grades like auto-lock tuners, etc. However, more recently I spent a bundle on a gorgeous Koa Strat. After getting it home, I discovered that it played like crap, so I sunk over a $170 with a pro luthier into correcting all of it's problems. The string trees were out of alignment, the rosewood fret board was pulling away from the Birdseye maple neck at the nut, the neck itself was warped, the nut set too high and had to be trimmed down.... on & on. What happened to the continuity of QUALITY? Even with all the upgrades, I didn't spend anywhere near the money on the Sunburst HSS than what I have sunk into the SSS Koa. Apparently, I'm crazy AND nuts, both at the same time. My 2nd, 3rd & 4th guitars were ALL Fenders (way back in the 60's) and I've had other Strats & Teles a bunch of times over my long career. (I'm 62 with over 45 years in the music biz.) My other axes (PRS, Parker & MK-HQ) "play like butter & sound fabulous" right from the get-go with NO need what-so-ever to be operated on by a luthier. Obviously, I'm very disappointed with Fender. Note: A long time ago I had a Deluxe Reverb that worked fine for several years, but one day it totally fried and I abandoned it out of disgust. I have no idea if it was resurrected by someone or if it was tossed in the dump. I guess I'll stick with my Vox, Mesa & Marshall. (at least for the time being) This current 'period' reminds me of the CBS take-over and all the "Pre-CBS" frenzy there after.

BTW: As a 45-year professional musician, this 'label' of "Roadie" because I haven't spent hours posting here to rack up "Pro" status, is inane. I'd rather be playing my guitar.... Duhhhh. Some beginner can post a ton and get 'upper status' that inverts the apparent experience factor. IMHO, numbers are one thing, but the 'labels' they use here are just plain stupid and degrading. Whoever came up with this needs a good 'Leroy Jethro Gibbs' head swat.


Last edited by Guitarman1117 on Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:06 pm
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I hear you. I spent roughly 25 years playing professionally. I'm glad I kept some of my old guitars and amps. I play in a couple of blues bands in small clubs now. I guess you can say I'm semi-retired. I know equipment fails from time to time, but some of this new stuff is just ridiculous. I sold a lot of my stuff I only kept one Gibby. I'm happy doing what I'm doing. The thing is my 76 Twin never failed on stage. I had a 64 Vibrolux Reverb as backup. The Vibrolux was stolen and I never replaced it. I always and still do carry spare tubes but just a Champ to mic if something happens. My HRDlx died on 3 separate occasions on stage and I will never gig with it again. So now I need to look for a good replacement. I will not get any amp made outside the US or on a PCB. I will either build one myself or have a custom amp built. I haven't bought a new guitar in a long time. Martin guitar has started producing the guitars using HPL (high pressure laminate) in Mexico. I won't buy one of those either.


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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:08 pm
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I have the same, some old Strats and Teles before a hundred different versions, the same with my Les Pauls. I never did anything to those guitars except strings and adjust the neck in all these years. I fell in love with the finish on one of the new Am Strats last year and had to buy it. My MIM 72 Tele Deluxe in Shoreline gold needs new everything, pots, toggle, and jack. I'm also using all new caps and wire. That Tele is really nice but the electronics just plain suck. I like the Pup's they have a different sound for a humbucker and I will keep them, but everything else is going in the garbage. I'm not much of an amp builder, I pretty much just do my own maintenance and tubes. I figure let the other guy build them and I'll make them better. I called the store and the Super Sonic is on order along with the VM sooooo who knows I might take both... I could use to sell some stuff anyway


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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:21 pm
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I always gig with two amps and guitars, My Marshall and Fender and my Les and Strat. I bring some tubes and fuses. I have a 73 Univox 50 watt head and 2x12 cab that is still going strong today with out failure!!!!!! so enough said. The new Fender stuff is starting to piss me off with the lack of quality. I realize things break at gigs, happens all the time but, the new Fender stuff well, I guess all the posts with unhappy Fender folk is worth a thousand words!


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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:22 pm
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I've been thinking about a refret on my Strat. I love the way that thing sounds.


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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:08 pm
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Go with the stainless fret wire. Stuff will last longer than you


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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:55 pm
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Despite the negatives in my post above (& others before this) and the obvious ridiculousness (to me anyway) of selling guitars BRAND NEW that L@@K like WW3, I must say that if I were running Fender, a giant $ (ka-ching!) light bulb must've gone off way back when the idea of building an exact copy of Jaco's (over-used) bass was done. "Hey.... we can take any guitar that's 'B' stock with dents & dings, send it over to the custom shop to 'do more controlled damage' and sell them for a lot more than the perfectly beautiful ones! There are idiots out there who will pay for a guitar that just L@@Ks like an old one, (but really isn't) especially when those older VERY well-built and much higher quality guitars cost a mint. We can get them to believe they're getting a bargain and make a ton with what we'd other-wise have to get rid of cheap."

Yeah.... any corporate head would consider that to be genius. I guess you have to give credit where it's due, but what happens to the value of the real thing when all these 'fakes' flood the market? Isn't that like stabbing your own name-brand quality reputation in the back? What can the out-come say about corporate ethics in general? From my personal experience and POV, it's no wonder complaints are popping up. It seems to me that the stock-holder may be smiling now, but if the customer base isn't happy, which way is that arrow on the stock graph going to point tomorrow? (or don't they give a crap?) If the attitude is: "We are too big and have been around too long to take a financial dive," they best think again because the evidence is out there with plenty of other companies who thought the same way...... like AIG &/or 'the Big3' etc. Only time will tell.

However, I can't blame anyone for being pessimistic when 'quality in the old days' included singers who could actually carry a tune with backing musicians who really played on the 'samples' they "re-cycle" on recordings today. The new definition of "talent" appears to be the ability to scam the public and the success of that is totally undeserved fame and fortune for a few weeks or months. It used to be that there was respect for the English language and REAL musicianship. Today, what you play doesn't seem to be any where near as important as how fast you can play it. If you can zip a chromatic run past the listener and end on a valid note for the tune, who will know it's actually BS? I've witnessed bass players checking out an axe or amp in a music store and (showing off?) whip out more notes than a 240bpm 4/4 measure can handle. The sad fact is, a blur of mud has more definition. Then they turn to you and say: "House dat fo' sum hod-az jammon?" They sign their name with a unreadable scribble and text with secret coded short-hand. It's no wonder the average IQ's are only 2 digits anymore. When did the 'straight & narrow' take a sharp turn and end up in the local sewage plant? For those who are 'in the know': GI-GO!!! ..... and for those who don't know better: There is absolutely NO substitute for quality.... period. Never has been and never will be, regardless of all the computer-driven robots that are programmed to do the work. By its very nature, the essence of quality requires a living-beating heart. Perfectly sequenced & quantum-adjusted music anyone?


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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:15 pm
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Amen! The Road Worn series is a joke. It is a way to recycle junk IMO. The suckers are out there so let's sock it to them! What a bunch of crap! Are these going to be classics in the future? I think not! I hope Fender Stockholders aren't counting their chickens before the egg hatches with these guitars.

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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:30 pm
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I agree. They are all relic'd the same way in the same areas. It's just ridiculous what people will buy.


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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:49 pm
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It's good that someone got to read this before the escaped cat gets grabbed, stuffed back in the bag and tossed in the river...... IF you know what I mean. I have spoken up in other places, at other times under a variety of circumstances and one way or another, I got 'smacked' or shafted for my POV, simply because the bigger the giant, the bigger the foot that steps on the bug.

Here's a musically related example: I've owned a Ric-12 BYRD since I custom-ordered it direct from F.C. Hall over the phone back in the fall of 1972. When I was on their site some months ago and was looking to find out what its approximate value would be today, considering its age and rarity, I happened to mention details of my conversation with the aged owner when I placed my order.

Fact is, he asked me about adding the 6-12 grab & mute arm that's supposed to be a 'converter'. He already knew I wanted the 3-pickups, (just like McGuinn's) and the 'converter' mounts and operates in the space where the middle pickup would be. If that wasn't dumb enough, he tried to sell me a tremolo..... on a 12 ??? Duhhhhh. Of course, I was chastised for telling the truth and the son/CEO of RIC wasn't happy about my honesty. They shut me out because in their warped opinion, "I was looking for a buyer" by asking what its current value might be and the rules say that kind of 'fishing' isn't allowed. Some days you're the pigeon, some days you're the statue. Open your mouth and you just might end up eating that previously mentioned squashed bug. BTW: Would someone please pass the salt? LOL


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Post subject: Final Note On Deluxe VM
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:49 pm
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OK people I had a chance to really play the Deluxe VM... here is my 2 cents worth. After mine started to smoke I decided to really play this thing in the store before taking the new one home. The reverb is very digital sounding.. I dont care what Fender says about it, anybody that knows Fender amps will tell the difference right away. Its like a decent reverb pedal, the same with the vibrato. The cheap celestion is very harsh sounding. I believe its the seventy 80 speaker. You guys already know how I feel about the groove tubes....they flat out suck! the effects can be used at the same time which is cool. The foot switch is cool. The clean channel is pretty decent. Thats about it. This would be a really good amp, maybe for the entry level tube amp, but not at $800 bucks. Bottom line Fender could have done a better job on this. If you're a tone freak pass this up its not for you. It is by no means "Vintage" . Fender in my opinion is taking advantage of us by some pretty good marketing. For those of you who care. I purchased the 65 Super Reverb. This amp is just awesome sort of like a 65 Twin reverb but with four speakers that break up a little sooner. I should of just got this amp first and bypassed the headache. So thats it take it for what its worth. Tone is subjective so you may like it, just be sure to play it before you buy it with the same guitars that you own to be sure.


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Post subject: Re: Final Note On Deluxe VM
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:38 pm
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slapenta wrote:
OK people I had a chance to really play the Deluxe VM... here is my 2 cents worth. After mine started to smoke I decided to really play this thing in the store before taking the new one home. The reverb is very digital sounding.. I dont care what Fender says about it, anybody that knows Fender amps will tell the difference right away. Its like a decent reverb pedal, the same with the vibrato. The cheap celestion is very harsh sounding. I believe its the seventy 80 speaker. You guys already know how I feel about the groove tubes....they flat out suck! the effects can be used at the same time which is cool. The foot switch is cool. The clean channel is pretty decent. Thats about it. This would be a really good amp, maybe for the entry level tube amp, but not at $800 bucks. Bottom line Fender could have done a better job on this. If you're a tone freak pass this up its not for you. It is by no means "Vintage" . Fender in my opinion is taking advantage of us by some pretty good marketing. For those of you who care. I purchased the 65 Super Reverb. This amp is just awesome sort of like a 65 Twin reverb but with four speakers that break up a little sooner. I should of just got this amp first and bypassed the headache. So thats it take it for what its worth. Tone is subjective so you may like it, just be sure to play it before you buy it with the same guitars that you own to be sure.
I have to agree about the amps.I recently bought a BDRI ,and althoughi love the tone,it isnt made as well as it could have.I recently bought a used 59 Bassman and had a chance to take it apart to lacquer it.What a difference in quality.Built like a tank and the previous owner put in Philllips wgb tubes in it and it sounds outstanding.


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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:34 pm
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I am in total agreement, and (to be fair) the findings have 2 reasons:
1) Digital amps weigh less, therefore the old 'tanks' HAD to be able to handle weight while the newer ones..... well, not as much.
2) Naturally, even though the speakers still weigh about the same, they cut back on the cabinet strength (quality?) because they can.... and THAT cuts down on the cost... in manufacture, distribution & sale.

> Why then are the charges to the customer(s) still so high?
*Even cheaper parts cost more these days....
*S&H (distribution) costs are going up.....
*Due to climbing internet sales, more items set in stores longer.....
*Store sales include S&H; the web shaves that & adds it back in after.....
*Labor costs rarely go down & quality work demands quality pay.
*Percentile profits aren't anywhere near as high as you'd think they are.

At 62 and having been a pro in the music biz for some 45 years, I highly recommend that (like a vehicle) you NEVER buy anything without trying it first. DO NOT think that if you 'Use' a music store to "preview" a product, that it will be the same off the web, especially if it's a lot less expensive. Most of the time the photos don't show the fact that it can be a blem or 'B' stock, even if it says so. Photos may be of 'A' stock &/or not be able to show any marks, let alone the fact that they might have inferior electronics and a lousy set-up, tubes, solder joints, etc. I have bought many a gorgeous looking guitar case that was "on sale" (off eBay or dealer web sites) that were said to be NEW, yet when I got them, they didn't close properly or were warped... usually both.

You really can't beat taking a guitar or amp for a 'trial run' in a store and buying it, if it sounds & plays-works for you. WARNING: Check the serial number(s) when & as you try it. IF the store doesn't box it up right where you can see it, they may switch it with something else (of lesser quality) in the back room. This is not to say they are screwing you over on purpose, but they may have put better components &/or a better set-up into the "floor display model".... get the picture? Besides, it is rare that you get the exact same auto you totally check out on the show room floor, eh? You get one that's "just like it"....... sort of, LOL.

General example: Back in the 60's when the Vox Super Beatle amps came out, they were sold "as is" and many musicians couldn't get the sound(s) without literally blowing them up. I finally understood what the problem was when I saw a photo of Ringo from side stage.... the amps all had an extra 250W power-booster setting on the floor BEHIND the amps. (They were listed at the bottom of the Vox brochure & easily over-looked.)

ALSO: If you think ANY guitar or amp you see being used by your favorite artist hasn't been "up-graded" by a pro tech &/or that you can get that same sound, feel & play-ability right 'off the wall'.... YOU have a LOT to learn. Be VERY careful how, where and on what you spend your money.

Go to any car dealership or plant-factory and look to see if all the vehicles (w/ valid plates) are that same brand. If so, they ALL believe in the quality of the product because THEY put it there..... but if not..... be wary. Point is, are the people who sell 'such & such' brand actually owners and users themselves? Ask questions.... don't let anyone 'dazzle' you or give you the line: "I'm buying one like this as soon as I can save up the money" or even "I'd buy & own one IF I had the money".... etc. Sales BS. What DO they own & play? How long have they been playing? Do they play out and get paid? FINALLY: If you can, take YOUR guitar to the store to check out an amp and (again: IF you can) take your amp to the store to check out a guitar. At the very least, be sure they have an amp JUST LIKE YOURS with the same tubes. It DOES make a world of difference & it's worth it. (BTW: What brand & guage are the strings on the guitar? THIS makes a difference too!)

Please take this advice seriously.... don't wait until you are in your 50's or 60's to realize it's value.... by then it'll probably be too late to take heed. Remember that color & shape of any guitar isn't what is HEARD. Here's a list of the components that DO have influence all the way down the line, from your fingers to the ears of the audience:

1) Pick (if you use one)
2) Strings: Brand, guage(s) and type.
3) Pick-ups
4) Controls (pots, switches, wiring, etc.)
5) Neck (scale) & play-ability
6) Cord to amp (quality & length: What F/X are in between?... + R U Wireless???)
7) Amp.... wattage, components, over-all quality & speaker(s)
8) Age of everything involved and the care it's been given.... (this includes cases)

Lastly: Take good care of all your equipment or it can't take care of you. GI-GO! If you don't treat your equipment well, don't expect it to be dependable, no matter what price you've paid. In my experience, for the same money, it may often be better to buy higher quality used than cheaper brand new. A warranty NEVER guarantees the highest quality workmanship after-the-fact if it wasn't there in the first place! Always take your guitar(s) & amp(s) to qualified repair people; & this DOESN'T always mean "Authorized". Too many product makers BEG for dealers to hang the sign in their stores and out-source. IE: The store may have 'Authorization', but does/do the person(s) they hire have the qualifications, training and experience? If you Love music.... and your equipment, it's the same as "True Love" .... >> LOVE is far more important than any 'piece of paper'. (& so is experience.)

That's MY 2 cents and for sure, it will save you thousands in return. (Not to mention headaches & embarrassment!) Believe me, I know.
_____________________________________________________________

NOTE: Since there are GIGANTIC photos on the next page, I decided to bring my post from there back here, so that it can be read without scrolling back & forth and back & forth and back & forth and back & forth and back & forth and EEEEEYAAAAAAAAAAAHH !!!! :shock:

Now then:
I really didn't mean to imply that switching items was any kind of common problem..... on the contrary, it's VERY rare, BUT it CAN happen. The issue is to BE AWARE. As you pointed out, many home-town music stores ARE like family and treat you super-well.... BUT, there is always the off-chance that you will be in some other town or city and have the opportunity to drop into THAT other music store, see something you really REALLY want and decide to buy it right then & there. BE CAREFUL ...... these people don't know you and if you are as trusting with them as you have come to know such 'at ease' feelings surrounded by musical instruments, being waited on, etc.... THAT can cost you.... by being too comfy and letting your guard down. We are all only human and it happens if we aren't wary. Naturally, many of us will be on guard in a new and different store, around unknown people, BUT.... some won't, being too relaxed in a (sort of) familiar place.

The point is, especially for touring musicians, not all people working in a music store are musicians........ and (even if they do play an instrument) they are doubtfully of YOUR professional (or even PT) caliber. It seems that they're mostly in the business to MAKE MONEY *a profit* selling you things that will (initially) put a smile on your face when you walk out the door....... so, here's another tip: (Unless you are obviously quite FAMOUS) NEVER say you are just passing through, doing a 1-time gig in town........ Always INFER that you are considering moving there and plan on settling down somewhere in the area. (The possibility of) RETURN customers will get better consideration than a 1-time shot..... just the way it is. OR, if you do club & lounge tours with a week or two return every few months, THAT is reasonably close to being a local and you might get 'local' treatment.

READ the book by Richard Marx and THAT will open your eyes to just how seedy the music business can be. What I'm saying is, just because your manager is also your wife's brother, cousin, etc. doesn't mean you can trust them...... just ask Billy Joel. From my experience(s), placing trust in an agent is like making an omelet with un-candled eggs. Most agents I've ever known are NOT and never were musicians, (unless they were crappy ones, which is WHY they became agents, LOL), so most really can't see things from your prospective and can't do the best by you. YOU pay THEM a percent of YOUR income to get you (and your band) some good paying jobs on a regular basis. However.... especially these days.... they kiss-butt to the club owners because THEY are the actual source of the money. I am certainly NOT saying all agents are liars or shysters or underhanded, as they do their best to get you the most money so that their cut is as big as possible.... and PROFIT is the same in any business. Sure, your home-town music store may treat you like family and make you feel like a King every time you walk in, but THAT'S the entire point .... you keep coming back, buying more stuff, making them more money....... & $$$ is ALWAYS the bottom line...... NEVER forget that. OK...... so you truly believe you've become really good friends..... do they send you a card on your birthday? Have they invited you to their home for Thanksgiving dinner? Real friends do that, don't they??? So, again I say, just be aware and wary in general. Human nature and the basis of profitable business is simply this: "I look out for ME first and (IF it suits my purpose) you second, BUT I make it LOOK like you first and me second. When I blow the 'favor' I'm doing for you UP as big as I can, I make money and I'll make more $ when you return for more 'favors'."

I once worked in a music store and the owner actually gave BIGGER discounts to certain customers than he'd ever give to his own employees! Politics and Religion shouldn't be a factor, but sadly, either one or both tend to sneak in there. Even how you dress, what you look like, your age AND gender can also be factors.... NEVER think they can't. Just try going into a jewelry store looking (and smelling) like a bum; even if you have a huge wad in your wallet..... they might toss you out anyway. The world is full of mind games and if you are going to play, at least have some idea about what you might encounter. IE: If you are planning on going for a ride, YOU do the driving.... don't get "taken for a ride", as you can end up somewhere (financially) you don't want to be. Simply put: Keep your eyes open and don't take a pat on the back (or a kiss on the butt) too seriously.... it's YOUR money; spend it wisely or don't spend it at all. Patience is a virtue.... and impulse can kill the cat. Take some life-lessons from those who've been down that road or you'll have to repeat the same crap they went through. However, If you can only learn by doing.... then get some insurance, stash extra $ in the bank (or under a mattress) and wear a F#$%^! helmet!


Last edited by Guitarman1117 on Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:44 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:03 am
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I've been playing for over 40 years also a good part of it professionally. I agree pretty much with most of your statements except the switching to higher quality parts on the floor model. That's just totally unethical from a business standpoint. I doubt the business owner would risk losing his business from a lawsuit over it. There is also usually a return policy too. I usually go home with the guitar on the wall that i try out. I bring my own amp or guitar depending on what I'm buying, ALWAYS. I don't buy guitars from Sam Ash, GC or Musicians Friend unless it's just something low rent to practice on.
There is a smaller music shop locally that will match any of the giants. In many cases he is cheaper anyway. He's been around in Philadelphia for close to 50 years. They sit with you and don't let the little wankers come in and beat stuff up. My dealer professionally sets up every instrument before you leave the store and you try it out after the setup. He will change the strings gauge to your liking adjust the action, pup height etc. You are totally happy when you leave.

Guitarman1117 has some serious advise, you'd be well advised to take it.


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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:28 pm
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very true statements and great advice. I also will not buy a guitar or amp from those big wal-mart music stores either. I have been using a local dealer for 25 years. He treats me like family. He will setup my guitars for free, discount everything I buy and treat my friends with the same respect. I paid $1100 for my NEW 65 Super Reverb not the $1700 as the other places advertise.....no kidding. Its nice to be treated like that. Did I mention that I love the new amp :lol:


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