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Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:01 pm
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Rock Star
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I've been thinking about building a Mission Amp 5e3 kit. I'm pretty handy with electronic stuff. I've even built a couple effects from scratch and even etched my own pcb.
What's rough is I never had a bad Fender product until now. I have a 74 SF Champ that I love. It's a great amp. I bought it about 15 years ago at a local music store for 150 bucks and never even plugged it in to see if it worked. I got it home and it was incredible, still is. I had a 64 Vibrolux that was stolen while packing up at a gig. I was sick over that one. That amp had a tone that was just so organic and complex. My 76 SF Twin is still kicking and only had a cap job as preventive maintenance. I'm the opposite, I can't stand the shortcuts being taken on the reissues. They mount the volume controls to a pcb and use ribbon connectors to attach them to the board. If you take out pot on a door jamb it's a big hassle to repair it. I really need to get this out of my system. It's just sad.


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Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:46 pm
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Excellent discussion guys!

The Hot Rod Deluxe scares me for exactly what 63supro says.

If it's "Fender clean" you want, my research tells me that either it's the Deluxe Reverb or Twin Reverb. You can probably find used within your budget.

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Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:06 pm
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The thing is, most amps are PCB now, and most are working just fine out in the field. It's not just the hot rod. As mentioned, its the DRRI, et al, the C30 et al. The list goes on as we know.

Trust me, I'm an old conservative amp kind of guy, but my experience with PCB has been better than with PTP amps I have had....including that 65 deluxe I mentioned. ;-) I guess that's why I'm OK with them. Now I do prefer the the volume controls being mounted to the chassis instead of the board...no doubt they are more stable that way. The ribbon connectors don't bother me at all for a production amp.

I tinker some, but I don't have tech level expertise on modifying amps. I can see where that would be a pain for guys who are technically inclined to get in there deep and do some serious work on them.


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Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:31 pm
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I know the pcb amps werecost cutting measures and it is nice to be able to afford a 40 watt tube amp that sounds good,but there are limitations to them as well.They are more fragile for sure.I would love to have a 57 deluxe, but i cant afford 2k for an amp.Its that simple.i do wish they would chamge the volume pot too.It is hard to dial in a decent volume sometimes.If i think this might be an issue i bring my Bjr.


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Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:54 am
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I don't think PCB was initially done for cost cutting measures......at least not the sole reason. PCB in anything is a natural progression in technology. We wouldn't have any of the advancements we enjoy now with out PCB. No desktop computer, no laptops, no widescreen TV, and on and on. PCB in amps was just logical at the time they started making them.


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Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:14 pm
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There are good PCB designs and poor PCB designs, and the HRDlx is full of shortcuts. I was appalled when I took off the back cover and saw PCB mounted tubes, switches and pots. That is just a poor design period, made for profit and future land fill.

There are many well designed PCB amps. Fenders higher priced amps and Mesa Boogie comes to mind. Peavey's are not great sounding but durable. Tube sockets should be chassis mounted period as should all switches and pots. If Ampeg can hand wire an amp cost effectively, so can Fender. Fender is already making amps in Mexico and China as are most manufacturers. I still think it has to do with profits and not keeping up with the competition.


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Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:23 am
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I agree that mounting tubes on a circuit board is a bad design. However I think that unlike the Hot Rod Deluxe the DRRI has its tubes mounted on the chassis. The DRRI does have the pots mounted on the circuit board but I don't think they are as problematic as the Hot Rod Deluxe. Although I do like all the features of the Hot Rod, I am going to buy a DRRI because of the better sound and reliability.


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Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:11 pm
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DRRI's are great sounding and reliable amps. The only problem with PCB mounted pots is if you hit a door jamb and shear off a knob and shaft or if a pot itself goes bad it's a lot more work to repair it. If I were to get any reissue, I would change out the Taiwanese power supply caps for American made ones. That's just me though. I look at saving headaches down the road. I did that for a friends Twin Reissue because he was having power supply problems due the the cheap caps failing. Fixed it right up.


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Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:11 am
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I've owned 3 Hot Rod Deluxes in the last 12 years and will never be without one. Great tones for low bones, and I've never had a problem with mine--U.S. or Mexi-made. And yes, I have an old Blackface among lots of other amps, tube and otherwise. The HR sounds terrific, IMO.


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Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:16 am
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Hey Hey Fenderheads-

I have a 2000 HRDlx and have had no problems with it except for the Input Jack (Plastic)- I gig with it and and it is so very reliable. The Clean tone is so rich and buttery that it makes Mrs Butterworth jidder with glee. It takes my wha and rotovibe pedals very well and has lots of punch- very responsive-

I got lucky I suppose and I will admit I dont know a PCB from PB&J ... I just like what I got.

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Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:50 pm
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I think considering the price they are ok.I am not wild about how the tubes are mounted but mine ( i had a HRDX and now i have a BDRI ) have been pretty reliable.I would like to get a 57 deluxe amp some day ,but cant really justify 3k.I have tried the DRRI but itd 250 more and i dont know if i like the scooped mid sound enough to buy one.


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Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:01 am
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I've got a little hint for everybody on this subject.
Alot of the amps we all wax poetic about as having "THE" sound were absolute garbage!! Why do you think that companies like Mesa/Boogie became so big?
Because they took the flawed designs of these 'vintage' Fenders and improved on them. They put in stronger components that were less likely to fail, they upped the gain stages to get better sound out of them. We all sigh wistfully about the old Blackface and Siverface and Tweeds, but those were the very amps that people complained about ALL THE TIME as being too sloppy sounding at volume, and being unreliable.
Don't get me wrong, I do love the old amps. I just get tired of people acting like they are the Holy Grail while whining about one newer amp that had to spend some time in the shop, or had an idiosynchrousy. The old amps spent ALOT of time in the shop, and were quirky as hell. Be thankful for the sheer number of quality amps and guitars we are blessed with these days. There is something for everyone out there, whatever sound is in your head.
Personally, I have a Tweed HRDeluxe LTD with a Jensen speaker, and a matching Tweed 1x12 cabinet. It sounds great for my style, which covers blues to metal, and has not failed once. I wish I could say the same for my '67 Marshall 50 watt, which blew up, literally, on stage one night! That was one hell of a glitch!


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Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:26 pm
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You're kidding right? I've had lots of amps since 1964 and I'll tell you what, I can count on one hand how many times collectively, they've been in the shop. My Twin has been absolutely reliable since 1976. Same with all my other old amps.

Maybe not you, but people crave these amps for a reason. Many boutique amps are based on them. They were not unreliable amps. I know because I made a living with them since about 1969. My 2008 HRdlx failed on stage not once but twice! My Twin never ever failed. I just recapped it when it was close to 25 years old. Just because your Marshall went up in smoke, don't mean a thing, just like my HRDlx embarrassing me not once but twice. If you're having good reliability and are happy great. Not everyone is having the same luck as you and I wouldn't call them whiners, just pissed off consumers and musicians.

I doubt if any of the reissues will last as long as my Twin. I think most will be landfill in 10-15 years. Just my opinion and experience. I have over 40 years gigging experience so I think I have a decent baseline. Not trying to start an argument. :mrgreen:


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