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Post subject: Champion 600
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:41 pm
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Location: Sacramento, CA
How close to the old Champs are these? Are they all tube? or a hybrid? Just curious- I've used a friends 54 Camp for recording and it was really sweet. :)

The ones I see on e-Bay are a bit beyond my budget, but the 600 is certainly affordable-

Thanks
Stainless
Sacramento, CA


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:06 am
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The Champion 600 is based on the 1949-1951 era Champion, with these being the main differences:

1. We removed the Rectifier tube, as it does not significantly affect the performance of such a low-powered amplifier.

2. We changed to a 12AX7 preamp tube, because the original 6SN7 tube is hard to get these days. The 12AX7 gives more gain, which today's players usually prefer.

3. We installed both "High" and "Low" gain inputs, giving you more versatility.

4. It's not hand-wired like the old one. Printed Circuit Board saves cost. This is an extremely affordable Tube amp.

It's a great sounding amp, which can be cranked up in the home without upsetting your family.

hehe

thanks,

Shane


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:23 am
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Fender did mighty fine on this one.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:28 am
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Chris63

Are you using this for recording? or just quiet/low vol playing?

Stainless


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:35 am
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I'd like to point out to "purists" that PTP hand-wiring does NOTHING for tone. Repeat: Hand-wiring does not improve the sound of an amp per se.

Props to Fender for jumping into the lo-cost tube fray! Don't stop now!!!


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:09 pm
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Hand wiring does make a more reliable and more serviceable product. Tone wise, many will argue that point it's all subjective.It all depends on the quality of the board and components. I don't think my Hot Rod Deluxe will last as long as my 76 Silverface Twin Reverb or my 70's Champ amp. My Hot Rod has been repaired once and it was less than a month old. Oh I'm not really a purist or a tone snob. I've been playing over 40 years and have mostly played Fender amps and guitars during that time.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:16 pm
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Yes, servicing and reliability are arguably superior in a PTP product. But there is a kind of urban myth that the PTP by itself produces a tone magic that can't be approached by PCBs and that's hogwash.

A good example is the DRRI. I've read so many vintage experts who've A/B'd the original PTP's against the newies and like the new PCB ones better.

Of course, we'll never know what a vintage amp sounded like new, they certainly don't sound like that now. The caps get dried out, the speakers are well-worn and drier, various components change with age. Leo didn't build 'em to sound good 50 years later, he built 'em to sound good THEN.

Did the old PTP's have some reliability magic? I don't know, but when my '65 Twin needed repairs, a guy in the back room with a soldering iron had to mess around with it for hours. It was expensive and basically "patched up" at that point.

Today, they just swap a board out. You get a new board direct from Fender, not some patched-up job by some guy in the backroom with solder burns all over his hands.

These are the good old days.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:29 pm
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The problem is they just don't swap the board out. On my Hot Rod Deluxe, the tech re-soldered the the tube sockets to the board and replaced some caps and resistors not any boards. I did know what the Deluxe sounded like new because I had one back then. I traded it in for a Vibrolux Reverb.
Doing an A/B on a 40 year old amd is just rediculous.

Printed circuit boards were around in the 50's but Leo never used them. There was a reason for it.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:44 pm
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Aha but our memory cells have dried out over 40 years! Yeah the modern plastic PCB-mounted tube sockets are terrible, a true achilles heel. The road will take its toll on board-mounted sockets. Do any modern PCB amps utilize chassis-mounted Tubes? Some manufacturers at least use ceramic sockets. I believe even Boogie mounts on the board, but I think they at least use ceramic sockets.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:54 pm
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Quote:
I believe even Boogie mounts on the board, but I think they at least use ceramic sockets.


Well can't speak for the newest ones, the ones I've owned have all had chassis mount sockets (Rocket 440, Studio 22, Blue Angel)


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:28 pm
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Oh ok, I know the Nomad and some others are board-mounts. Does Fender make any PCB/chassis-mounts? Maybe something like the Supersonic series? Must be some reason they cost over a grand.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:10 pm
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What I'm looking to do is build a Mission 5e3 Deluxe tweed clone. I love tweed amps. They're just so dynamic. It's almost like the amp lives and breathes.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:31 pm
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For me it's a toss up between the Champ 5C1 and the 5E1 circuits, the 6SN7 is a bit harder to find NOS, and I suspect the two champs I've been lucky enough to play thru (52 and 54) are probably the 5E1- both were a joy to record with

There's a couple of decent clones / kits available, but the 600 has caught my eye,... I guess I need to go to GC and play one, my biggest concern in the 6" speakr, versus the old Alnico 8" (what were they, Jensens, Utahs, or Oxford)

I'm thinking the 8" gives a bit more LF response

and I'm curious how much more the "extra gain " changes the flavor/coloring of the sound, as well as the high/low inputs. I think I can borrow the originals and do a side-by-side. The 52 has been re-capped, but the 54 is original (except for tubes).... GC does have the 30 day return.... hmmmmm


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:46 am
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I would love to hear a 600 with a 2x10 or a 1x12 cab. I did see a guy on another forum that built a hand wired home brew in the same 600 enclosure.


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:00 am
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I remember the moment they announced the 600 had a speaker out jack...YES!!! 5 Class A watts can easily drive any cab you got.


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