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Post subject: A Fender All-Tube Modeler in the works?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:15 am
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Line 6 is coming out with an all-tube modeling series in Oct. in conjunction with Bogner. Basically a POD front end built into a Bogner tube amp.

Now if you read through experienced players' opinions in this forum, you'll notice that they generally recommend tube amps over solid-state to noobs. Probably because, oh yeah, they sound much better.

Yet many players want and need the versatility of extensive modeling and efx presets at the touch of a footpedal, and would like at all integrated into one slick package. The best of both worlds.

So I put it to you: would you be interested in an All-Tube (ok, pre- and power amp sections, not everything) modeling/efx amp from Fender? Essentially something like a 2-6L6 50-watt combo with an integrated Cyber-Deluxe sound engine tweaked to work synergistically with the real tubes?


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:18 am
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It's funny, Line 6 has sworn they'd never go near tubes, now they are one. They just looked at the success of the Atomic, and realized they were blowing off the entire gaggle of glass gurus.

So many players are using some form of digital front end for their tube amps, why not just sell an integrated package? The best of both worlds would be the selling point.

If you read all the posts about Cyber-Deluxes and Cyber-Champs, the knock tends towards the "it's good but it's just not a tube sound/dynamic" which is the dealkiller for many. Fender will be watching the release in Sept. of this Bogner/L6 hybrid Atomic-killer closely. For me, I'd strongly consider a Fender Cybertube 50-watt combo in the $599 range. Especially with an included footswitch--the big mistake they made with the Champ (no F/S!).

The way L6 is doing it, they've integrated a single 12AX7 into their digital preamp, much as Fender has with the CT. So Fender could just transplant their CT preamp and add CD engine into an HRD power amp stage w/cab. Voila-the 2008 Fender Hypertube is born! They just don't pay me enough for this stuff....


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:29 pm
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Maruuk - Thanks for sharing the rumour on this Fender forum and that's a good question. However I don't think this all-tube modelling amp would have much success among Fender fans , here's what I think:

- All-tube fans like to keeps thing simple, like either play straight to the amp, or use a few effect pedals and that's it. For those who like tons of effect, they can run their favorite FX pedal board through the FX loop of "modern" tube amps from Fender's Pro Series or Hot Rod Series product line. So, this type of all-tube fx amp would be no different than
this.

- Modelling of various amp type would certainly be a bonus, imagine being able to model a 65 Deluxe Reverb, or a 59 Bassman, or a 57 Deluxe, on a "all-tube" amp. But, I don't this can technically be done in "all-tube" from an all-tube amp, at least not with a dozen different amps. Fender has already delivered on this with its Super-sonic line up, which models the 65 Vibrolux and the 66 Bassman in an all-tube fashion (they did an excellent job by the way on the super-sonic) but to model a good dozen amps in an all-tube amp, only using the tubes? Not sure on that one.


- While line6 focuses on the low-end of the market (i.e those who can't afford the "real" stuff), Fender would have to deliver an "industry benchmark" amp, like they did with the Cyber-Twin. If the best retail retail price for a Cyber-Twin is ~$1,300US, I can see this benchmark all-tube modeling amp from Fender costing 2, 3 times as much. Would all-tube fans pay this? Not likely, because of my first point. While the Cyber Twin brought A (amp) plus B (effects & modelling) to be less than bying A + B seperatly, I can see an all-tube modelling amp costing more than bying A + B seperately, so what would the benefit/cost savings be with an all-tube modelling amp? $599 for this from Fender, only in your dreams my friend :)

I think it's great if Line 6 can launch such as product, but I can only see this appealing to the low-end of the market, with the pros or those wanting to have a pro sound, or those who can afford it, sticking to their favorite old tube amp from Fender (of GASing about getting one more famous Fender tube-amp fin their arsenal rom the current Fender all-tube amp product line).

Tweed Dog Steve


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Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:48 pm
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good replys. im scared of anything line6 produces, tube or transistor...

i dont like many effects. if i had an amp with an effects loop, that was a head, and a cab... i would have a bunch of rackmounts though. bbe sonic maximizer, korg tuner, rocktron hush... probably a delay too. and i use tube amps. the only real effect (minus delay) i like to use is wah.

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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:04 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Good points, all!

The knock on the L6 "Pogner" tube/POD hybrid is how in heck is that any different from sticking a POD in front of any half-decent 50-watt 2-6L6 combo? Basically, it ain't.

And the thorny question is of course: what does "tube modeling" really mean when all real modeling is done digitally and you're just using your tubes for a colorless harmonic distortion and warmth much as Atomic does with its series?

If Fender took their inexpensive yet excellent modeling and EFX engine out of the G-DEC and stuck it in basic 2-6L6 combo and made it in China they could hold costs down pretty well.

But you're right, this would not be for roots rock n' blues tube purists, this would be for the hard working cover band player who has to jump from being the Edge, to Robin Trower, to Prince, to Jeff Beck, to Clapton to Brian May in one set. He needs to stomp, not twiddle. He needs tubes, but he needs to be a Sonic Sybil, too.


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