It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:13 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 92 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Author Message
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:35 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:26 pm
Posts: 1
Bill Moore wrote:
The bar has raised for the mechanic, and so has the salary. The jobs for the lesser skilled tech has disappeared, but I don't think we would be better off with a goverment program to ensure that those jobs are availlable to individules who refuse to educate themselves........ I compete in the marketplace with a product, (quality auto repair), with all of the other shops in town. Sure most of my customers will patronize my shop regardless of price, but I have to be competitive with the other shops around, just to attract new customers. I am not the cheapest in town, but I will fix your car, and stand behind my work, and that is the product I am selling. Average knowledge doesn't attract business locally or globally.


Definitely some solid points here Bill. I love guitars but happened to come across this post while doing some market research, looking to see how I stack up against other auto mechanic salaries. I've also found the lesser skilled jobs to be fading in this field, but unfortunately as I've added skills I'm not sure I've seen my salary rise, as you suggest. Just gathering some numbers now to see what I can do about that... thanks for the insight.


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:39 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:49 am
Posts: 170
Location: North of Philly
...


Last edited by Think Floyd on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Boycott Chinese-built amps?
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:52 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:32 pm
Posts: 1384
Location: uɐʇsıʞɔnuɐɔ 'puɐlʇɐlɟ
I bought one Behringer product, a pedal and it is the worst piece of **** I own, all plastic and the cables won't stay plugged in. It is good at creating unexpected silence at the best of times, and when it does manage to work it inserts a weird cyclic thump into the sound signal.
I'll never buy another one of their products.

The working conditions is another thing, there was a recent report on TV about Wal*Mart trying to locate workers being forced to work unpaid shifts.
The story said the Chinese company was reporting workers worked one shift to wal*mart then made them stay an extra unpaid/reported shift to meet the price points being demanded.
Now if the above is true or not I do not know, but I saw it on TV so it must be .

I've been harping on this topic for years,
Try to buy local, or don't complain when your job vanishes and the country goes bust.

Maruuk wrote:
Are all Chinese made products manufactured in hellish sweat shops? No. For instance, Behringer has just set a precedent and now owns and runs their own China facility in which the workers are relatively well taken care of. For China that is. The forced communal living conditions and work hours/conditions would violate most American worker standards, however.

_________________
Keep on Truckin, Going full speed ahead down the highway to hades.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:26 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:53 pm
Posts: 483
Location: usa
for what it's worth, some observations:

1. the free market has been proven itself to be the most reslient economic force in history. it all about people trading with people and interdependancy, everyone trying to get best value for their hard earned wage.
2. governments can of course influence the free market with tarrifs, incentives, social engineering, access to education (all levels from trades to post grad) and so on. this makes sense if there's a national strategy in play, as opposed to a knee-jerk reaction.
3. all governments compete for economic superiority one way or another, it's the way it is. sometimes they'll band together as an economic force, other times they'll be at each others throats, each always going for top position.
4. what makes any country great is its people. more specifically, their moral fibre and work ethics, a desire to be most productive and best in world. complementing this is a "system" that treats its people fairly, provides the necessary services to ensure such continuity. in practical terms, to stay great, lay off the drugs, do something positive with your life what ever that might be, and demand that the government treat its people fairly and equitably - hold the elected officials accountable to the people. just remember that in a democracy, we get the government we deserve.
5. at the world scale, we are interdependent. should china be isolated? isolation will eventually breed contempt followed by war, something no one wants. so let's not get isolated, let's get interdependent. but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have all sorts of backups...
6. so the battlefield is the economy. you win by picking your battles carefully and then setting your sights on winning. by the way, this does NOT mean having a weak military force. but note that having a strong military force "at the ready" requires a lot of money, so a strong ecomony can afford a strong military.

yes, do what you conscience tells you, but know that point 4 starts with you. if you believe the better product is a us made product, demand it and then buy it! for those making it, deliver it.

ciao,
johnny.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:10 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:32 pm
Posts: 1384
Location: uɐʇsıʞɔnuɐɔ 'puɐlʇɐlɟ
An IT worker in the US/Canada get similar wages say maybe 40-70K/year their replacements in India get 6-10K/year. How can a worker in US/Canada compete? You do the job for a similar wage and you promptly starve living in a box under a bridge at those wages in North America.
From what I gather the wages in China are even less.

There are few industries that can not be off-shored except maybe the service types that require a direct hands on presence.

Globalization the big equalizer;
bringing everyone, everywhere, down to the same third world levels.

_________________
Keep on Truckin, Going full speed ahead down the highway to hades.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:38 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:53 pm
Posts: 483
Location: usa
true. but... in the grand scheme of things, everything tends to equalize out in time. there is no perpetual imbalance, there is short term pain as things ebb and flow. to answer the it issue: factor in cultural differences, distance across oceans, time differences, communication barriers, and soon what seemed to be a bargain isn't, especially in the world of software where everything has to be extremely precise - one bad line of code can bring down a 100,000 lines of code. and of course, we all know that farming out work will incubate at least one competitor no matter how many NDA's get signed. but to balance these remarks, we should also note that when we get too comfortable in our jobs or businesses, we better re-think that comfort zone because that breeds complacency followed by a nasty surprise - if it gets too easy, then any anybody can do it, and someone hungry will do it for less bucks. it's the way of the world. moral of the story: build better quality, better sounding amps for less, never give the competitors an edge no matter where they are. i have traveled the world some, i know we have a pretty good system, damn fine people, moral, ethical, hard-working, and self reliant. all the ingredients are there to succeed. my 2 cents.

ciao,
johnny.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:16 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:04 pm
Posts: 7056
Location: South Florida
What ever happened to Maruuk?


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:10 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 684
Location: Canada
Maruuk wrote:
Fact: American product prices must absorb worker health care costs. Their overseas competition does not. GM cars have $1200 in medical coverage costs built into each car. Toyotas have zero.

Fact: The American labor movement has sacrificed thousands of lives of men, women and children to earn the US worker decent conditions, a living wage, job security and a pension. These are conditions designed to raise the American worker above the oppressive Dickensian fourth world sweat shop gulag so revered above.

Fact: The laissez-faire predatory capitalism touted above is all about union-busting, undercutting American values and producing a cutthroat lowest-common-denominator labor environment in which American workers must conform to the same brutal and oppressive conditions America extricated itself from back in the days of the mills and the mining town near-slave conditions. Do we want to sell the American Dream off to the Chinese Communists the way we've sold off our mortgages and securities to them?

Fact: Trickle down/supply side voodoo economics/trust the Boss doesn't work. Reagan proved that.

Fact: If the American worker is to retain any of the safety standards, the economic protections, the basic human rights that they used to have just a few years ago, we can't pit workers making pennies a day living in squalor in communal work camps (that make our old milltowns look like swank resorts) under a dictatorial government directly against Americans trying live a decent life. Unless we want to subject them to the same conditions.

Fact: This great "benefit" of the cheap Chinese amps is mostly a "benefit" to the profit margins of large corporations. We are currently experiencing the highest discrepancy between the wealthy and wage-earners since the Gilded Age. That cheap $400 amp should really be $300, the extra hundred went into $30 million dollar bonuses to executives.

Fact: We can have American workers living in the Age of Dickens with Bill Cratchits and Tiny Tims, or we can have strong unions which protect our workers and help them live like human beings.

Fact: Expecting poor musicians barely eking out a living to use their non-existent financial power to sway the issue one way or the other is specious and irrelevant. We don't have a choice, we must buy the cheapest product available.

Fact: The change must come from elsewhere, a coordinated effort to protect all Americans from the predatory unregulated capitalism which desires only two things: reducing American workers to a life of efficient labor camps and supplication seen in all our Asian competitors, and maximizing profits so the elite may reap more untold and obscene wealth. They already have the last part. Lets fight to keep the first part from happening.


Well put, brother!

_________________
The ultimate Rolling Stones experience!
https://www.facebook.com/TheMainStreetExiles


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:41 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 12:05 pm
Posts: 86
Wishing for the good old days of unions extorting higher wages from their employers will not make it happen. We used to be a nation with a huge manufacturing ability, and a worldwide demand for our products, so it was irrelevant what we paid labor, we could charge what we wanted to sell that product. Without the demand, we have to try to make a product at a price point that will sell.
I tell my union customers all the time, that they can pay whatever they want to get their cars repaired, but if I charged the wages that they make, I would be out of business. You can talk all day long about the benefits of higher wages, but at the end of the day, I see those good union folks shopping at Walmart. You cannot change human nature!
If someone want's a FM65R, they aren't going to pay custom shop prices for one. If Fender raises their prices to a non competetive level, another manufacturer will sell a similar product at a price that the market,(you and I), will pay.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:47 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:26 pm
Posts: 44
well i bought a new strauss amp SVC30, that was made in china,what a piece of crap,blew power transformer in 3 weeks,then had it repaired...got it back and within 10 mins of playing blew the fuse,well its back getting repaired again,i have used it for about 5 hrs playin in 3 mths the rest of the time its been at the repairers....so as far as chinese made amps go....they suck!
MY CONCLUSION IS DO NOT BUY A STRAUSS AMP PERIOD! :evil: :evil: :evil:

_________________
Fender 2012 usa std telecaster
Fender 2013 japan stratocaster
Marshall jcm 900 4101
fender superchamp x2


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:13 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:14 pm
Posts: 305
I give Fender a lot of credit for making most of their higher end amps in North America. While most of us would like to be able to buy American products when we can, the marketplace is such that some of it has to be made overseas to be competitive. One of the most interesting books you can read on the subject is "Soul of Tone" the Fender Amp 60 year history. This very subject is discussed and while most of the people on this website are not beginners, think about the kid who is just starting out. Fender needs to be able to meet that young player's needs with a low cost good quality starter amp. The Frontman amps are a good choice and while made in Asia they are designed by Fender to be of good quality and value for the customer. If they didn't offer amps such as the 15G and 15R to starting guitarists they would be ignoring a big part of the market. It just would be impossible to make a nice guitar amp for $70 or $80 here. If that starting player has a good experience with his Frontman hopefully he will feel good about Fender and then transition to a better North American amp. So in a way I think that a foreign made statrter amp in the long run will foster additional sales of Fender made North American amps. If you ignore that begining player you may have lost him forever. I love Fender amps but fully understand their need to produce their entry level products to meet a certain price point. If the Twin or Deluxe go overseas then I'll be the first to complain. I believe they are trying to do right by the customer regardless of who they are.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:13 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:19 pm
Posts: 8827
l88vette wrote:
I give Fender a lot of credit for making most of their higher end amps in North America. While most of us would like to be able to buy American products when we can, the marketplace is such that some of it has to be made overseas to be competitive. One of the most interesting books you can read on the subject is "Soul of Tone" the Fender Amp 60 year history. This very subject is discussed and while most of the people on this website are not beginners, think about the kid who is just starting out. Fender needs to be able to meet that young player's needs with a low cost good quality starter amp. The Frontman amps are a good choice and while made in Asia they are designed by Fender to be of good quality and value for the customer. If they didn't offer amps such as the 15G and 15R to starting guitarists they would be ignoring a big part of the market. It just would be impossible to make a nice guitar amp for $70 or $80 here. If that starting player has a good experience with his Frontman hopefully he will feel good about Fender and then transition to a better North American amp. So in a way I think that a foreign made statrter amp in the long run will foster additional sales of Fender made North American amps. If you ignore that begining player you may have lost him forever. I love Fender amps but fully understand their need to produce their entry level products to meet a certain price point. If the Twin or Deluxe go overseas then I'll be the first to complain. I believe they are trying to do right by the customer regardless of who they are.


Not really"made" here as "assembled" here except for the real high end hand wired amps like the new Champ, Deluxe and tweed Twin. The 65 DRRI, 65 Super Reverb, 65 Twin, Princeton reisssues are PCB amps. The big difference are the tube sockets are chassis mounted and they use actual wood for the cabinets and good speakers.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:19 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:14 pm
Posts: 305
63Supro you are correct in that "assembled here" would be a better choice of words. I just finished reading a review of the new 57' Champ in Premier Guitar and even it has a Chinese 5Y3 (Ruby.) Most of us realize that as much as we would like an all American made anything the realities of a 21st century global economy make that difficult to achieve. Quality is what really counts and I have among my amps a SCXD which was made in China and is well built. I read an interview with Bruce Egnater a while back and correct me if I'm wrong but some of their amps are now made in China aswell. First rate quality though.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:52 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:18 am
Posts: 34
There is no question that the Chinese take jobs away from Americans.

Anybody who denies this is either incredibly naive or has a vested interest in pimping Chinese goods.

But the root cause is Americans who are not willing to pay the price for products manufactured in the US.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:34 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:17 am
Posts: 15
[quote="Jodo"]There is no question that the Chinese take jobs away from Americans.

Anybody who denies this is either incredibly naive or has a vested interest in pimping Chinese goods.


Ahhsoo... isnt it also true that americans with jobs do Chinese take away.
I will never buy american made chopsticks,very poor quality i read on various forums it makes you very obese.

I defy anyone in a blindfold test,play your intruments and see if you tell the difference.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 92 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: