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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:41 am
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I have never seen anything of exceptional quality come out of China. Mexico either, for that matter.

As for Me and my household, We will buy American


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Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:26 pm
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I was unaware that toyota did not have a health care plan for their workers. Since most of the toyotas sold here in the US are made here, I'm curious why those employees would work without most of the benefits the US model is based on. I think that they do have insurance, and other benefits that other manufacturers offer. I suspect that they don't have a huge retirement benefit program that was foisted on the US manufacturers back when we had a closed society, and the labor unions extorted all they could from the manufacturers. I think toyota has a decent retirement program, and they build pretty good cars, but they don't have to break the backs of their current workers to pay for their retirees.


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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:08 am
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Toyota has an employee health care plan. They just started asking employees recently to pay a portion of the cost... previously, it was free.

"It must be true... I read it on the Internet."


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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:12 am
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bigduke60 wrote:
I have never seen anything of exceptional quality come out of China. Mexico either, for that matter.

As for Me and my household, We will buy American


I'd sincerely like to see you try.

Go through you house right now and get rid of EVERYTHING made overseas. All the motors and magnet wire, all the toys and electronics, check and make sure you know where your plates and silverware came from... and then let me know how that Buy American thing works out.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm just saying that it's becoming just about impossible to achieve.


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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:22 am
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Plus last time I checked the Toyota P&Ls, shockingly, 100% of the profits got shipped back to Tokyo.

It's like fruit: would you pay $.71 more per box of strawberries to have the workers who picked them get paid a living wage, with benefits, with documention checking, with union representation and improved sanitation facilities and effective produce contamination monitoring? So that Americans could work together with legal Mexicans with working visas, both making a decent living? I would.

So would we pay $71 more per cheap tube amp to know that it was made by skilled American workers under humane working conditions? As opposed to collectivised labor camps featuring political prisoners and children? I know I would.

Can't be done that cheap here in the States? Carvin would disagree. They make their V16 twin EL84 combo in San Diego for $399...$50 cheaper than a MIM BJ. If they can do it, why not everyone else?


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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:20 pm
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Gravity Jim wrote:
bigduke60 wrote:
I have never seen anything of exceptional quality come out of China. Mexico either, for that matter.

As for Me and my household, We will buy American


I'd sincerely like to see you try.

Go through you house right now and get rid of EVERYTHING made overseas. All the motors and magnet wire, all the toys and electronics, check and make sure you know where your plates and silverware came from... and then let me know how that Buy American thing works out.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm just saying that it's becoming just about impossible to achieve.


You are absolutely correct. It is impossible. That is the sad nature of this discussion. I guess I should have said, "Buying a Fender product". I guess we should all be glad that Fender still makes a small pecentage of it's products in the U.S.A.

And "Mexican Made", don't even get me started. I live in the Southwest and see the quality of work the imported workers do here :roll:

Thanks


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Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:01 pm
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This on a morning when American employment is reported shockingly down and Wall Street is reeling from it. Not to mention the actual quality of the jobs that do exist have suffered egregiously. As the pundits couch it, we've gone from white collar to white hats. Made of paper.

Like everything in the world, it ain't black and white. It's about balance. Can GM and Chrysler/Cerebrus learn from Carvin about how to build an affordable, quality Made in America product? Probably.

But as long as outsourcing is incentivized by our own tax code, and as long as other nations are allowed to virtually tariff our goods while we can't theirs, there is no balance. As long as overseas companies can dump goods for below cost in the US driving out US-made products and the companies that made them, there is no balance.

Try to find an American car dealership in Japan. Look for one American car in downtown Tokyo. Yet there is no specific law banning the establishment of such. But it's done virtually, quietly. Off the books.

The American worker who would like to be employed building tube amps needs support and reasonable protections, not to be cast upon the swirling winds of the crooked global economic cyclone. But as long as NAFTA and the WTO are cramming an unregulated predatory tilted-table game down our throats, expect to see a lot more bad job news as we've seen this morning.


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Post subject: Boycott Chinese-built amps
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:37 pm
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I have been to Tokyo several times and believe it or not there are American cars on the streets there. Of course not in abundance as their cars.
Mostly Cadillacs, Covettes and the 1st time I was there the Olds 442 2 door was considered a high performance sports car.

I am however, as you are concerned about our economy.
End the war, spend that money at home creating home made procducts, end the greed, educate the masses (which makes for a more productive, wage earning, tax paying citizen) and more money circulates here in the US.

We can afford our own home made products again keep more money in circulation here.


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Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:08 pm
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Yeah, a scattering of cult cars, even the Chevy Astro van, very popular amongst van cults. But no dealers or any real presence. American cars come in one by one on special deals made with small importers. The table is tilted.

Education is very important. Wal-Mart used to tout that everything sold in the store was made in America. It was a lie, but the intentions were good. These days it's almost politically incorrect to say "Buy American". There's some sinister Global Thought Police pitching "global" goods over American goods.

So let's take this back home to amps. Think about it. Before you buy a Chinese communist-made amp (yes Virginia, they're still communists) no matter whose name is on the front, realize that you are supporting a competitive economic system that seeks to subsume our own. They don't wish to destroy our economy, they need it. But they seek to absorb it much as a parasite drains the life out of its host. And they're doin' a heckuva job, Brownie!

If you're too poor to have a choice, bless you, do what you gotta do. But if you can afford to pay a little more, realize that you are supporting American workers and our way of life. Read the back label. And if you can...

BUY AMERICAN!


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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:18 pm
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Fender's doing a lot of Am manufacturing with the guitars and the amps, doing it right with the top-tier, highest quality stuff made in the U.S.A. Baja's pretty close to where I live anyway. So the Blue's Jr. is made in MX?


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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:26 am
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I believe the BJ's made in Ensenada.


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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:53 am
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Indeed it is. I was playing the upgrade Tweed BJ in a shop last week, and i was the nicest amp i've ever used(in nearly 15 years of playing). However, having read this thread, when it comes to buying me a nice tube amp, i'll be buying British. Besides, it's not as if we don't have some great amp manufacturers over here(i live about 30 miles from the Marshall factory). Just have to find one that ain't made in China!

Thanks guys

Marge


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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:25 pm
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They still make Selmers and Laneys over there? Saw an early Stones' studio pic and they were playing Selmers.


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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:27 pm
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Carvin makes good stuff. Made in San Diego. They've got solid state emulating tube and tube. Personally, I'll stick with Fender. Even though to get Am amps you've got to go with Fender's really expensive stuff, I'm not seeing complaints about the reliability of the Hot Rods from Baja on message boards (aside from the Blues Deluxe, which is too bad).


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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:22 pm
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On the other hand the BD is one **** of an amp, even considering I got my original in '95 for $410, and now they're $650 or something. And with Fender's 5-year warranty, it's not like you're going to have to eat a lemon.

How does Carvin offer the American-made two-mode V16 for $399 while the Ensenada-made BJ is now streeting for $449???


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