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Post subject: Blending Amps Together
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:00 pm
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I purchased a Rapco AB box this last weekend and have a few questions about its use; for those of you with experience blending amps together.

To give you an idea of how I’ve hooked up the rig and what I’m using; the Fender 65 Super Reverb has a TS9 Tube Screamer cabled between the AB box and the amp (Vibrato Input 1) and the Marshall MG100DFX is cabled directly to the AB box with a Dunlop Dallas Arbiter cabled to the FX Send/Return jacks on the rear panel. All the cables are Monster S-100 and my guitar is an American Vintage 70s Strat. Both amps are plugged into the same earthed AC outlet.

The problem I’m experiencing is that with both amps on, the Marshall has a loud mains hum when I’m not playing. If I turn off the AB switch to the Fender, the hum is still there. If I turn the Fender amp completely off, the hum goes away. I’ve tried physically moving the amps apart, eliminating battery operated effects and plugging the amps into separate outlets; no luck. The only thing that removes the hum is when I turn the gain on the Marshall down to zero.

I’ve been working on my settings for about a year, and these two amps sound incredible together; a Robin Trower “Bridge of Sighs" tone! Am I missing something or is this hum part of blending amps?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Yee


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Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:27 pm
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Howdy YeeHaw, I've probably an answer that you may not like. At least not initially.

Ran into the same issue when trying to switch between and/or play in parallel my '65 ReIssue Deluxe Reverb and Blues Jr. NOS through a Whirlwind A/B Switchbox.

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/prod ... sku=156400

After a little reading afterwards I concluded the hum was due to a 'ground loop'.

I got rid of it and can now do exactly what I want noise free. Select between either or, more often, play through both in parallel with a switchbox made by Lehle. It incorporates an isolation transformer in the signal path. But it weren't cheap.

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/prod ... sku=150557

I sucked it up pretty hard on this one but figured it'd be worth it, and it is. Very quality device. In fact, I later decided I needed to get my Digitech JamMan Looper Pedal out of my train when not in use (as it degrades the signal a bit) and bought another Lehle product, their Little Lehle Looper Switcher.

In fact I initially had some questions (they've several devices that are quite capable for various switching functions), googled their site, and contacted them via e-mail. Mr. Lehle (pronounced 'Layla') wrote me back himself. The next day. Made me wonder at first if I was simply dealing with some guy in Germany working out of his basement, but have since come to the conclusion that I don't care. Nor do I think that's the case.

I'd tried to research a cheaper way to accomplish my desires but in the end, just closed my eyes, took a couple deep breaths and hit the 'Order Now' button at the Musicians Friend link. (By the way, I LOVE those folks. Lots of stories how well they've treated me).

I don't regret it in the least and if they disappeared for what ever reason, I'd buy 'em again.

Ended up keeping the Whirlwind as well, MF offered to allow me $30 credit to do so. I use it as a selectable input to the BJ on occasion.
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:34 am
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defreeze- Thanks for all the info! I’ll start checking out the links, when I get back form work, today.

Thanks again,

Yee


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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:06 pm
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Defreeze- Thanks for the info on the Lehle; I’m keeping it on hand, if I can’t sort out the problem. I think I might have isolated the source of the hummmmmm. By switching around my cables; I’ve found, that the hum seems to be following only one of the cables. [Fingers crossed] I’m hoping a new cable will get rid of the problem!

Thanks again, for the info!

Yee


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Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:46 am
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Just noticed a Taylor switchbox in this months Wood and Steel. In there, they mention a xfmr. Perhaps no worries about ground loop hum? Lot more affordable then the Lehle.

https://www.taylorguitars.com/taylorwar ... 011&page=1


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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:18 pm
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I had a 59 Bassman LTD so can say safely that there are some good workrounds to getting a Bassman sound if you have the right gear - 6L6 and/or 6V6's essential though! I got a Pignose G40V at same time as had the Bassman, so could hear direct comparisons but, since the new Bassman went back as was severely wrecked on the mainboard and Fender wouldn't replace only refund after several attempts and 7 months, I got other gear. Recently I got the Super Champ XD and even more recently, a 57 Deluxe. Now I have been a great one for linking two amps together to get specific tones as opposed to pedalboards/chaining. I have 3 ways to get my Bassman hit:

SCXD on 1st Bassman (XD setting 2) vol 4 Gain 6 and some tremolo ~2.5 (~essential at this setting!). Then I either couple up the Pignose with very limited gain but plenty of presence through a Digitech Digidelay with a modest reverb setting (Stereo is still provided even if pedal turned off and no earth hum as there can be with many ABY boxes!)- result, I get a Bassman on just the edge of breakup, shimmering through 2x10" speakers in stereo and as good as the famous 4x10 shimmer!

Or I can double up the Tweed Deluxe with the XD same settings and get a cleaner - more boomy equiv of another facet of the Bassman, or for rioutous 40w Bassman punch and all the girth (earplugs required) the Tweed Deluxe driven, with the Pignose up loud!! AND best of all, these amps are lightweight and transportable, loud enough and tame enough to use at home or gigs - the Pig is EVEN LOUDER THROUGH A BIGGER CAB !!!

I love the look and concept of the Bassman, but never got a breakup tone out of mine :0( but I did get that beautiful chordial, celestial articulate shimmer. To my ears, the Pig and the Deluxe offer that dynamic ingredient: The XD option, with that touch of Tremolo and a bit of gain, gives you a Bassman with some 'grittiness' but not overpowering.


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Post subject:
Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:14 am
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'57, did you intend to post this where you did?


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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:20 am
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Yes - I am continuing the discussion on blending amps and the fact I use a simple Stereo DigitalDelay pedal and get no hum....!

Says it in text...


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Post subject:
Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:33 pm
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doah! sorrry Bud, little tired

excellent point and one I wish I'd known before I dropped the $ for the Lehle

have notices a similar potential recently that escaped me until just now while looking at some flanging/chorus units


long as I've got your ear, can you think of a reason not to buy the MXR (not Eddies, the one thats ~ $20 cheaper).


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Post subject:
Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:36 am
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I looked at several AB and ABY boxes and all seemed to have reports of hum, except for some obscure and quite expensive options. Do some googling and HCentral searches...

I had already rigged up mine using the Digitech's stereo out option and as I set my delay to a reverb setting anyway, was very impressed. The benefit of the Digitech, is that with the X modelling control you can fix a set up and simply switch between 2 or 3 of the X models (using same settings) for instantly changed sound. For instance I have a setting aping the Fender Reverb sound, next notch on the X control gives me a slightly chorused version, next gives classic delay only... so three settings with no fiddly twiddiling. Of course if you want switching then ABY only way, but for me its about blending and this does a perfect job. Funny thing is - I don't use delay, and this is the best 'reverb' pedal I've had!


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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:12 am
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I've never tired it but I've heard good things about the Radial Switchbone. It's a fairly expensive option though I've seen them on Ebay for $100 less the msrp or thereabouts. Their website is tonebone.com for more info.


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Post subject:
Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:02 am
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57deluxe wrote:
... Of course if you want switching then ABY only way...


that was my goal, being able to bounce back and forth as well as run together

Have that ability with my Ric, via it's Ric-O-Sound, a stereo cable and stereo to 2 mono Y by toggling between bridge and neck pup, and wanted to be able to do something similar with my other guitars.

Plus, like you know, playing through a good little amp is nice, but playing between two that are split out is twice as nice.


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:21 am
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I had one of those same AB's from Rapco, i wish i didn't buy it. It was bad about sucking tone from the amps. I have not bought another yet after i sold that, but I think you are on the right track now.

Multi-Amps are fun though! I do a lot of 2-amp recording by using the stereo outs of delay or reverb pedals.

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Post subject: Behringer Hum Destroyer
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:21 pm
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When I run my Les Paul into my Mosley AB box, into 2 amps, a line to one of the amps goes into my Behringer Hum Destroyer. This little device removes the AC hum due to ground loops.

It costs $30 and does not require a battery! Check out the following link:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHHD400

Happy playing ....


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:31 pm
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I too use a Stereo Behringer Multi FX pedal with my Marshall MG250DFX and ValveKing 112. I just run a cable from FX B output to the mono input of the MG250 after I have attached pedal to VK 112 FX loop. Great sound too!

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