Killer tip Ray, I'm going to try this.

-Matt-

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Check out my Blog about my career in a live band.

I just posted up another of my presets. This one is called "LMC Stack Chorus" and it's based on the Vintage Stack model. I've added a Triangle Chorus to give the illusion of a 2nd guitar when you turn the chorus effect on.

I posted up a sound clip, MIDI Sysex and a text file of this patch on my website. You can check it out here:

Cyber-Twin SE Preset "LMC Chorus Stack"

I hope you like it!

On a side note, my band has released a concept album titled "Fudgie The Dog". It's really a studio jam session where we recorded 9 jams that tell a continuous story about the life and times of this dog named Fudgie. The reason I mention it is because every note is played through my Cyber-Twin SE and the album features a lot of the preset patches I've posted up and linked to from this forum. The guitar I used on the album is my '98 Jeff Beck Signature Stratocaster. If nothing else, the album is a great sampling of the Cyber-Twin SE, Jeff Beck Strat and my custom sound patches. My playing isn't my best (it was all jammed live) but it is great in some places. If you're interested you can check out clips and download the album here:

"Fudgie The Dog (a concept album) by Shufflin' Noah

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Check out my Blog about my career in a live band.

I'm interested in getting opinions on approaches to the balancing of these three settings from everyone-

- guitar volume
- amp trim
- amp master gain

I have found that these three settings, more than gain/volume, affect clean sounds dramatically- not to mention overdrive tone.

The way I achieve clean [or at least as clean as I can get] sound, and conversly distortion/overdrive, of course involves gain/volume. But more than that, for me it's the balancing of the guitar volume, amp trim, and amp master volume. Specifically, I tend to under-utilize the trim, meaning that I don't get much green meter and never hit red. This is because I control my overall volume with my guitar and with my guitar volume knob somewhere around 3/4 up and the trim residing at 7 or 8, I'm not hitting the trim hard. I get meter, just not full meter. My amp master volume almost always sits at 6. The interesting thing is if I back down the amp master and crank my guitar up louder for makeup gain, I consequently hit the trim harder and out comes all the creamy distortion and overdrive. I also get full green meter doing this, which is more like the manual suggests it should be. And although that's wonderful for those sounds, running like that makes it really difficult to dial in clean sounds- which I need a LOT for my gigs because we play a lot of jazz, mixed with rock/pop as the night progresses. So my method, for better or worse, seems to be running the trim high for headroom, thereby getting clean tone, and when I make my guitar louder it smacks the trim more and I can get crunchier tone. The thing that kind of bothers me though is that because I don't get a lot a green meter, I feel like my A/D conversion isn't at it's best and I'm losing something in tone. I guess in fact I AM losing something- distortion and overdrive! But this for me is imperitive for very clean sounds.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? And I'm sorry if this has been talked about, but I couldn't come up with it doing a search.

Dan

The architecture of the Cyber Twin is an analog path in parallel with a digital path. What we do not have is the exact split between the analog path and the digital paths and exactly what gets processed in analog or in digital. A simple block diagram from Fender would have helped immensely, but no such block diagram is available. At best we can glean whatever info is in the manuals and guess/approximate the rest.

As the manual says, the trim is used to adjust the analog to digital conversion process. Well it is also used to adjust the analog part as well. The truth is that the trim adjusts BOTH the analog and digital parts to keep both parts balanced as you adjust the trim control gain. The trim control has an overall "gain" impact on the analog signal processing - the trim is the first analog "gain control". However, it is not meant to be a "tone" parameter - it is meant to be set infrequently, set the analog to digital processing "zone", and to maintain the balance between the analog and digital signal processing "gain". If you are curious about the A/D range, you can hear it by playing your guitar and cranking the trim control - the analog part mimics the digital part (to some extent).

The effect of too little and too much gain has an impact on overdriving the A/D - the signal has to be "in the zone". The reason is that the A/D converter does not have a infinite range so you have to put the signal in the range for the A/D to properly sample the signal. The truth is that the range is quite wide and quite tolerant considering what the digital path does. So a roughing-in between getting a flicker of green and a blip of red is "in the zone". If you exceed this zone, I doubt you would hear much difference, but let's not exaggerate and crank too low or too high either!

We are told the effects and reverb are digital. These would be somewhat insensitive to underdrive/ovedrive. I am not clear about the other items such as timbre, and noise gate, although I suspect they are analog with "digital" controls. I do not know if the compressor is digital or analog (I suspect it is analog with digital controls). I do not know how hum redux was implemented so i can't comment on this either.

The "pure" analog path is through the front panel tone controls, post/pre distortion, tone stack, and drive circuitry. While clearly the overall gain is affected by the trim, the tones are not affected (much, if at all), they are affected by the Gain/Volume on the front panel. Naturally, Master Volume has an effect on hearing - your ear tends to compress the sound as volume increases. If you want that "high volume" effect, try increasing the amount of compression.

If you are looking for Fender supplied info, the original Cyber Twin manual is much better written than the SE manual and it applies to the SE as well. The SE manual includes the extra effects, timbre settings, and hum redux information, scant as it is.

Well, that's about all that I know, I hope you find it helpful,

Ciao,
Johnny.

Very cool Johnny. This beast is deep for sure. I have the original cybertwin and manual. You can't find the PDF of the original manual on line it seems- and it IS much better.

The thing that makes the cybertwin kind of tough is actaully working on your sounds. If you're a gigging musician, than at home you really have to crank at stage volume to know and understand what you're dialing in. Anything less than stage volume and you won't get a good read on what you're dialing in. And forget about dialing in sounds through headphones. I can get beautiful sounds through cans, only to be dissappointed when it comes out of the speakers- much like mixing audio, cans aren't great for setting up stage sounds. Frankly, I have the most fun dialing in sounds for low volume play and recording. In this respect, the amp behaves better and is actually more responsive. The minute you have to crank it out for stage, everything pulls apart a bit for the sake of pure volume. I mean, the CT sounds amazing on stage too, all by itself. I don't mic the amp and it cuts through really well. I've never been squashed by any band yet! The CT just gets humming around six!

I have more thoughts but I must run. Be back later.

Dan

I just posted up another of my custom Preset sound patches. This one is called "LMC Stack Hot" and it's a charged up version of the "LMC Stack Chorus" preset I posted the other day.

As usual I've posted the MIDI Sysex, Text file and a sound clip of the preset for you to listen to, download and enjoy. You can check it out here:

Cyber-Twin SE Preset "LMC Stack Hot"

I also put a post up detailing which of my custom presets I'm using on each song on the "Fudgie The Dog" concept album. You can check it out here:Custom Cyber-Twin SE Preset Patch "Fudgie The Dog" track-by-track breakdown.

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Hey Johhny- I had to re-read your above post because the first two times it proved to be too much to absorb! LOL! I think I've gotten the most insight about the cybertwin from you my friend, and I thank you for that.




No one else has a comment about how they set their cybertwin in regards to this?

Dan

Johnny's got a good method there for controlling the input levels with his guitar signal. I basically do the same. When I set my trim, I turn my guitar all the way up with the bridge and middle pickups running in series for a simulated humbucker output. This is the hottest output my guitar gets. Then I set my trim so that the red light flashes for maybe 1/5 of a second when I really hit my guitar hard. My trim is usually around 6-7 with my 2005 American Deluxe Strat.

After that, I too will control the clean sounds with my guitars volume knob. This is how traditional tube amps react to guitar volume changes and I commend Fender for getting it right with the Cyber-Twin.

-Matt-

_________________
Check out my Blog about my career in a live band.

Hi, I just picked up a Fender Cyber Foot Controller to go with my Cyber Twin Head. I need to get a power supply for it. I read the manual, and I'm asking to make sure.

The power supply for the foot controller is listed as a 9V AC 1A 2.1mm adapter. Does this mean that it is a 9V AC output?

This is important, because if it is a 9V DC output I need a different adapter. Any idea where to get the needed adapter?

Thanks.

Hit radio shack and get a universal power adapter. It has at least six adapter heads, with multiple power choices. It's around 25 bucks if I remember correctly, but it comes in very handy for anything and is good to have.

Dan

Yes, it is only a step down transformer from 120VAC to 9VAC. No DC. The transformer has to supply 1000 milliamps (ma) at 9VAC (10watt rating). 1000milliamps = 1 amp.

ciao,
johnny.

oops, I think I screwed up the quote/post . Oh well, what the hell.

About the trim settings- that seems a reasonable way to set it up, but what is your amp master at? I have the orginal CT and whether anything has changed or improved in this regard I don't know. But my experience is a bit different than what you describe.

First off, these setting I use aren't arbitrary. It's what usually sounds best on stage, regardless of what my trim meter has been reading-

I keep my trim at 7-8 normally. I keep my amp master at 6. Guitar around 3/4 up, using a Gibson 335 and now a variax 600- which is a significantly louder guitar, btw. Now, even if I crank the trim all the way up I cannot get a decent green meter. And pushing red? No way. I get low green flicker, is about all. BUT, if I turn down the amp master to 4 and make up the volume loss by cranking my guitar, boom- I get nice full green meter, which is what I thought should be happening at all times for the best A/D conversion. And with that full green meter comes the most beautiful, creamy distortion. It's as though prior to full green meter, the digi side of the amp has been starved, and therefore the distorted patches sounded shrieky and harsh. And with low green trim meter, the clean patches seem deceivingly clean, because with full green meter it's REALLY difficult to get any one patch clean. Perhaps the wonderful overdrive I get with more robust green meter is actually clipping, I don't know. But I've NEVER heard digital clipping sound that delicious, I must say! LOL!

I'm heavy into recording too, so a meter for me usually means that good signal should be present enough to push it to normal operating visuals, if you get me. To see my CT trim meter barely flicker when I'm pumping a pretty hot guitar signal into the amp suggests to me that the signal chain is not set optimally. My instinct says you should see 3/4 or more green meter at all times, and bumping red occasionally with very hard playing. Actually with digital recording, RED means clipping and should generally be avoided, but that's recording- perhaps it's a bit more forgiving on the amp.

What gets me is that all of this- great metering and better distortion sounds comes at the price of bringing down the amp master to FOUR! I can't gig at four. No less than six for stage. And then the most difficult thing is getting clean sounds. If I am to 're-gain stage' the amp, I'm gonna have to do some serious work on my gain/volume settings in all my patches. See, everything affects everything else with the gain stage of this amp. It's a challenge!

Btw- try this for yourself and see. Keep the amp master low, trim on 7, and crank your guitar so the meter is full of green at almost all times. The sound is drastically different than seeing very low green meter.

Am I stating the obvious??



Dan