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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:15 am
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No Myspace. I don't like putting recorded stuff on the internet.
The problem with the current corp of lower priced pcb amp is the cheap resistors, caps, switches, jacks and pots they use. Even some of the higher end Fender stuff use caps made in Taiwan.


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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:53 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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That's probably a valid point, Supro. I modded my B-52 and put Orange drops in it and there was a significant sound difference. I usually buy my parts at a reputable electronics store in Indy unless I'm in a pinch and have to do a radio shack trip. Just like tubes though, eventually its all gonna be made overseas.


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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:23 pm
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Tubes have to be made overseas because they don't have OSHA over there.


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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:08 pm
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Or EPA.


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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:21 pm
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I have heard that Groove Tubes is making a 6L6 in California though.


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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:21 pm
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I doubt it. Especially in California. Tube manufacturing went to Europe a long time ago because the assembly was too costly and the stuff they used polluted the environment too much. The EPA and OSHA killed it but good.

I never had any luck with Groove Tubes. They always sounded too sterile no matter where the bias was set. I also think they're over priced.

By the way rjake, it's great to communicate with you and andyk12 because you guys don't get all bent out of shape if I say something negative about a Fender product.
For me guitars and amps are tools, when a tool doesn't work right I get ticked off. Some people will defend products regardless. I just call them as I see em. I always go by personal experience, not rumors or hearsay.


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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:22 pm
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I doubt it. Especially in California. Tube manufacturing went to Europe a long time ago because the assembly was too costly and the stuff they used polluted the environment too much. The EPA and OSHA killed it but good.

I never had any luck with Groove Tubes. They always sounded too sterile no matter where the bias was set. I also think they're over priced.

By the way rjake, it's great to communicate with you and andyk12 because you guys don't get all bent out of shape if I say something negative about a Fender product.
For me guitars and amps are tools, when a tool doesn't work right I get ticked off. Some people will defend products regardless. I just call them as I see em. I always go by personal experience, not rumors or hearsay.


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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:54 pm
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That's interesting. I haven't had much luck with them either. I've been getting some consistant results with the Electro Harmonix brand for the past several years. Marshall amps don't seem to like the 12AX7EH though.
The distortion sounded pretty nasty in a TSL. Alternative folks might like it.

Nice communicating with you too 63Supro. Although I do own 2 Fender Strats and a Fender amp, I have other amps and equipment that I like also.


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Post subject: Update
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:47 pm
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So, it's been awhile and things haven't been all that great. I took it back to L&M Saskatoon.

From what I understand powertube rattle should only occur after awhile of being slammed by audio waves. I took my amplifier back to the tech for him to check out the 'buzzing' that occurs at 60 Hz and at most 4th overtones of that (and frequency that is even remotely close to these 41, 82, 120, 164). The tech swapped out the tubes infront of me, I played a harmonic on the 7th fret and it rattled like a mofo. We both agreed there was a problem if swapping the tubes isn't going to help.

I left it with him for a week and I picked it up yesterday. From agreeing there is a problem (new tubes doesn't take the tube rattle away - which correct me if I am wrong - it should do!) he is now telling me that 'this is the way Fender builds them and when you bought it you accepted these headroom limitations.' He also told me that he ran a sine wave through another Hot Rod amplifier at 60 Hz and it did the same thing. I told him it's not a 'headroom' issue, it's not a low distortion threshold something is *&^^ing vibrating in the amp chassis! It still has 2 months of store warrenty, and 4 years, 2 months of Fender warrenty but if I can't get them to admit that it's a problem I'm pooched.

So really, he's saying that all the Hot Rod Deluxe series amplifiers hava an inherent death rattle at any moderate SPL's (I'm probably talking 80-95 dB SPL nothing crazy). It seems really unfortunate! that Fender would market a product that doesn't even work properly and leave the consumer with his hands tied to get a rebate or swap. I'm pretty upset with the fact that a big company like Fender makes a product that doesn't even work properly and moreso makes a product where it's dealers state that it's supposed to do that - tough luck.



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Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:50 am
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Andy,
If you can take it back and get a refund, I'd do it. See if you can get a deal on a Deluxe Reverb Reissue, or maybe an Ampeg J20.
Like I said, I have a HRDlx and it's been nothing but problems. Look around on other forums and you'll see the same things over and over. 5 watt power resistors burning up, bad solder joints and random channel switching are the main complaints.

Instead of putting different colored Tolex and speakers on the HRDlx, maybe Fender should address some of the design flaws in an otherwise good sounding amp. The same issues have been around for years. If you just pull the amp out once a month in the bedroom, It's fine. If you intend to gig with it like I do, look out. You better have a backup amp.

I would gladly pay a few more bucks for reliability.


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Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:17 am
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The Ampeg J20 seems like a nice beast, but I want to know why you're recommending another Fender combo? Is it just the Hot Rod that is a terrible amplifier?

The Deluxe Reverb was what I was going to buy but I got the HRDLX based on my brothers good fortune with it plus the savings on the price tag. Is the Deluxe Reverb prone to tube rattle? From the research I've been doing it hasn't been a problem. Is it made from decent materials? Have you used one?

I almost feel like it's my God given duty to preach the BAD NEWS about this product line. Instead of wrapping this lemon up in a new paintjob why don't they fix it so people aren't dropping hard earned cash on this crap?


- Andy


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Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:57 am
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Andy,

That's exactly how I feel. Like I've said a million times, I've been playing Fender amps since 1964. I have a HRDlx and it is THE most unreliable amp I've ever owned. It sounds decent, but it seems to be a lot more prone to tube rattle than say, a Vibrolux Reverb, or a Deluxe Reverb. Most all combos are prone to tube rattle. The HRDlx has the tubes in very close proximity to the speaker. This is the first combo I've ever had that I need tube dampers to help the problem. I will be dumping this amp for either the Ampeg or a home brew 5e3 in the near future.

The new HRDlx with the racing stripe has a birch cab and a better speaker, but they still haven't addressed the volume control and cheap pcb issues.

Guitar Player magazine gave it glowing reviews, but what would you expect?

I wish we could get reliability in an affordable package. To buy $700 worth aaf problems and headaches just shouldn't be. If Ampeg can build a 20 watt hand-built amp, why can't Fender?


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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:30 pm
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RE Hot rod Deluxe- I had a problem that sounds a lot like yours, I thought my tubes needed to be rebiased because my amp got knocked around a bit. My service guy diagnosed mine as a bad speaker. he said that Fender had been having problems with the speakers that were installed on the line and ordered me a new speaker. This seems to have fixed the problem. If you do need a new speaker get one that is at least 60 watts or 75 watts. Fender says that the stock speaker is 50 watts and should do fine. If you do get a new speaker break it in slowly. these may only be 40 watt amps but they are 40 tube watts.


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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:36 pm
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I don't think it's the speaker, dude. I just had a good chat with Ed from Fender (a heckuva nice guy I might add) and I'm taking it in again for the third time. Apparently the Fender Tech guys think its a loose tube socket that's causing the vibration. Hopefully that's it, it makes sense, as only one tube really vibrates and swapping them doesn't make any differance.

If it's not fixable, I'm going to pick up the Deluxe Reverb.

I'm so disgusted with musical instrument dealers in general right now that I'm tempted to just buy $50 guitars and $75 amplifiers, it's not like the audience can tell the differance anyway.


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Post subject:
Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:50 am
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Andy,
I would save future headaches and get the Deluxe Reverb.
It's a loose tube socket probably because of cold solder joints on the tube sockets. The tube sockets are soldered and mounted to the pcb. Heat from the tubes makes the joints fail. If you keep fixing it, the traces may possibly lift from the pcb. It's a common problem with the Hot Rod series.

The Deluxe Reverb has it's sockets mounted to the chassis acting as a heat sink and being much more reliable.


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