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Post subject: Aaaaargh!!!
Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:44 pm
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Somebody kill me now! I cannot fit the JBL D130F speaker....the $300 non-refundable one I have been so excited about having in my '64 CS Re-Issue Vibroverb. Certainly, not using the stock baffle.

The ribs of the JBL speaker are directly inline with the transformer. In the image you can see how it scratched the center rib when I tried to fit it in.

The only way I see doing this now is to make another baffle and position the holes for the T-nuts, so I can c o c k the speaker one way or the other to hopefully tuck in and miss the rib. I just am not sure at this point how far the transformer will end up away from the cone itself.

I'm not sure moving the transformer is an option....besides I don't want to permanently alter the amp itself. Same reason I don't want to Swiss cheese the baffle with new holes. Rather just make a new one....get some Fender speaker cloth and an emblem maybe.

Image

Any thoughts? How did you guys do it.......am I spazzing?



Note: To the cuss word police in the software. On it's own.....the word C O C K as a verb means to tilt, tip, angle, lean, s l o p e, bank, slant, incline, pitch, dip, cant, bevel, camber, heel, careen, put at an angle
As a noun it is a bird.....especially a rooster. In informal use it means nonsense. It also means to make a gun ready to fire. Only as slang......is it a $@!&#.

It does *@@!*^& to the word s l o p e as well. Crazy. I actually find the fact it corrects these words (and probably others) slightly offensive.


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Post subject: Re: Aaaaargh!!!
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:30 am
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Fumbly wrote:
The ribs of the JBL speaker are directly inline with the transformer. In the image you can see how it scratched the center rib when I tried to fit it in.


What a shame. And that's an original-cone D130F (note the "21057" silk-screened on the reverse side of the diaphragm).

:cry:
To correctly mount that speaker in a centered configuration it will be necessary to rotate the speaker 22.5 degrees. Mark and drill the new hole locations on the baffle board, remove the existing mounting studs, then reinstall them into the relocated holes.

It's not rocket surgery.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Aaaaargh!!!
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:59 am
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Thanks Arjay.... yesterday I bought a nice piece of Birch plywood......I think I will make a new baffle and save my original. I noticed a an old ad for a Vibroverb baffle at Reverb.com.....in that case the person had offset the speaker to one side so a JBL D130F would fit. It's an option but I wonder how much it will make the amp a pain to pick up being as the weight would be off center axis.


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Post subject: Re: Aaaaargh!!!
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:06 pm
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You said its a reissue right? No history there to preserve. I would do as Arjay said personally.


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Post subject: Re: Aaaaargh!!!
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:16 pm
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It's the limited edition Diaz/SRV Vibroverb (whatever that was called). So not quite a run of the mill reissue. Not sure if there's any collector's value to harm, but...

I'm not sure that pulling a million staples, drilling 8 new holes, pulling the T-nuts and reinserting, possibly touch up the paint where you pulled the T-nuts, stretching and restapling is all that much easier than just making a new baffle. (A little since the cloth will have creases to guide you, but not much easier.)

A guy who just bought a Diaz and a JBL to put in it probably isn't worried about saving a few bucks on cloth.
-------------------
Offset speaker -- try lifting the cab/chassis now that the baffle is out. Is it perfectly balanced? If not, offsetting the speaker might actually make it better. Many tweeds and lots of other combos/cabs have offcenter speakers.

I prefer the sound of offcenter cabs. I sometimes slap an EVM in an offcenter 112. It does "hang" from the handle a little lopsided, but not uncomfortable or difficult to carry.

(Nothing's as bad as Marshall Plexi heads with all the iron at one end.)

But lots of pics show centered JBL's in Vibroverbs (rotated as you plan to do). And Stevie's EVM's were centered in the baffles (also rotated). Should fit fine in the center, and even at max excursion the cone won't get anywhere near the transformer.


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Post subject: Re: Aaaaargh!!!
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:15 pm
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All original '64 Vibroverbs featured a centered speaker regardless if it was the OEM CTS driver (P/N 5815025) or the optional JBL D130F. The vintage amp's speaker mounting studs were factory-installed just as I've described (the first screw offset from TDC by 22.5 degrees). The myopic miscreants who developed the re-issue model apparently never considered that someone would wish to install an authentic JBL so they neglected to accommodate this possibility. Were this my problem I'd modify the existing baffle board, hook-shot the original grill cloth into the nearest dumpster, then replace it with some quality "aged white" repro weave from Mojotone.

But that's just me......and everyone knows that I don't know WTF I'm talking about.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Aaaaargh!!!
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:02 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
All

But that's just me......and everyone knows that I don't know WTF I'm talking about.

Arjay

A bit of Sunday sarcasm.

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Post subject: Re: Aaaaargh!!!
Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:11 am
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I'll built a new baffle with new grill cloth.

Fumbly, don't forget 1/4 inches pieces of wood between the grill cloth and the baffe

Look here; scroll down to midle or the screen

http://www.tjadamowicz.com/amps/Projects/proj06.html


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Post subject: Re: Aaaaargh!!!
Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:47 am
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strayedstrater wrote:
I'm not sure that pulling a million staples, drilling 8 new holes, pulling the T-nuts and reinserting, possibly touch up the paint where you pulled the T-nuts, stretching and restapling is all that much easier than just making a new baffle. (A little since the cloth will have creases to guide you, but not much easier.

It's certainly the owners call. I'm not thinking "easy", I'm thinking weight problems which you mentioned.

Resale value I guess is a concern here. From my perspective I'd look at it this way - if it's an SRV model amp, drilling holes in it would be very much in the spirit of the guy they modeled it after. No idea about Diaz, but I doubt a guy that played this hacked up strat with mailbox letting would scoff at such a modification.

Image


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Post subject: Re: Aaaaargh!!!
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:43 am
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If you don't want to change the baffle board, you could use a couple sets of speaker grille retainers to hold it in. They are a few bucks for a set of 4. Most are plastic, but I've seen metal ones before.


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Post subject: Re: Aaaaargh!!!
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:00 am
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TimsAudio wrote:
They are a few bucks for a set of 4. Most are plastic, but I've seen metal ones before.


Do you know how much a JBL D130F weighs?

:lol:
Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Aaaaargh!!!
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:55 pm
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At about 15 pounds, that's less than 2lb/screw.
A grade 2 6-32 screw is rated for 374 pounds clamp load. Short drywall screws probably have more.
It's not an ideal solution, I admit, but it will work without a lot of modification.


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Post subject: Re: Aaaaargh!!!
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:42 pm
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You may do as you wish but I'm not wont to trust a $300 loudspeaker to such a Rube Goldberg solution nor would I recommend it to anyone else.

If you can't do it right the first time how will you ever straighten out the resultant mess?

:roll:
Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Aaaaargh!!!
Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:45 am
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I don't do it anymore but I used to do work mounting large flat panel displays. I can tell you if you looked at the drywall anchors, you wouldn't think they could hold the weight. But the strength comes from having the weight distributed evenly across the anchors, and the panel being mounted flat against the wall.

Those displays were over 100lbs and sitting on something that looked like this.

Image

The problem with a guitar amp, is it gets picked up and moved. It vibrates when you transport it. I would say if you do go with the solution suggested above, you will want to check it periodically to make sure those grille retainers don't back out over time. Not an ideal solution indeed, but if the amp is going to sit in a studio and never get moved, it probably won't be a problem.


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Post subject: Re: Aaaaargh!!!
Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:37 am
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Assuming the baffle is 3/4" ply, 8 wood screws directly into the baffle would hold it securely.

You could toss it off a loading dock, and the screws holding the baffle to the cab would be more likely to strip out.

Prone to wear out the holes if you remove the screws frequently. And trickier to torque (but not hard to get right).
-------------------
But moot. Fumbly isn't trying to economize or cut corners. He's pondering the best way to do it, not trying to cobble up a makeshift solution.


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