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Post subject: Re: NAMM - Amps you'd like to see?
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:21 pm
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pcalugaru wrote:

Fender has a 5 yr warranty. IMO That's pretty good for electronics. Does Sony have a free 5 yr warranty on their flat screen TVs? How about appliances? Does Whirlpool, Maytag etc have a free 5 yr warranty on their washers and dryers? How about computers? Does Apple have a free 5 yr warranty on their laptops?

Not defending FMIC, just pointing out that Fender is pretty confident in their quality. Which does lead me to suspect what people say on the internet about Fender's quality, I suspect the reality is way different? FMIC towers over it's nearest competitor, how is that happening? Stands to reason that for every one complaint on the internet there are a plethora of satisfied customers that go unheard.

People often cite how cheaply made a modern Fender like a HRD is , I get that... they often go on to reference vintage HW amps. Agreed!!! when compared to them, But what most fail to ask " was that modern PCB amp made good enough for what it was designed to do?

To me those are two seperate issues
FYI - The 5 year transferable warranty was done away with effective January 1, 2017:

"Effective January 1, 2017, all Fender® electronic products purchased new from an Authorized Fender Dealer are covered by a 2-year limited warranty that applies to the original purchaser only and are not transferable (with the exception of Fender Fortis powered speakers).

Fender electronic products purchased new from an Authorized Fender Dealer prior to January 1, 2017 were, and continue to be, covered by a transferable 5-year limited warranty (USA and Canada only)."


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Post subject: Re: NAMM - Amps you'd like to see?
Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:03 am
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LawFlow wrote:
"Effective January 1, 2017, all Fender® electronic products purchased new from an Authorized Fender Dealer are covered by a 2-year limited warranty that applies to the original purchaser only and are not transferable (with the exception of Fender Fortis powered speakers).


+1k

Rohs compliant solder + 5 year warranty = bad business decision.

UN


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Post subject: Re: NAMM - Amps you'd like to see?
Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:44 pm
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There are conflicting views of the reliability comparison between lead-free solders and tin-lead solders.

I'd like to learn more. My cellmate (the guy who is across from my cubicle) is a senior buyer with many years of electronics in the medical field. He said the parts he was involved in buying at the time they changed over to lead-free had a lot of issues with components being affected by the increase in temperature need to get the solder to flow/print on the circuit board. He wasn't aware of lead-free solder not lasting as long as lead-based though.

A quick google I found Journal of Microelectronics and Electronic Packaging J says in 2005, testing was inconclusive on if lead-free was inferior to led based.

Proceedings of the World Congress on Engineering and Computer Science 2008
WCECS 2008, October 22 - 24, 2008, San Francisco, USA : Reliability Analysis of Lead-free Solders by
Amir M. Lajimi, Joel Cugnoni and John Botsis... Found lead-free solder is better than lead-based for thermally loaded applications ( i.e Printed circuit boards) but lead-based is better for mechanical application where stress levels are of importance

IMO... also kind of inconclusive for musical amps

2 yr warranty? (shows how long it has been since I bought a new Fender) I thought the five-year warranty was a great selling point for Fender's modern PCB amps. Bummer.

Reading those two trade journal articles reinforced my best practices for my modern PCB amps. Both articles talk in depth about solder creep and stress (oxidization of welds and separation from the circuit board)

I never move a modern amp till it's cooled down to room temp, never expose a modern PCB amp to extreme temperatures changes and never disrespect the amp (yank on the guitar cable from across the room, play musical chairs with tubes, make it a point take it in to a tech every couple of years for a check-up etc. I only have had a few modern amps and never have had a problem with them. (still don't like that 2 yr warranty though)


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Post subject: Re: NAMM - Amps you'd like to see?
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:09 am
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pcalugaru wrote:
I'd like to learn more. My cellmate (the guy who is across from my cubicle) is a senior buyer with many years of electronics in the medical field. He said the parts he was involved in buying at the time they changed over to lead-free had a lot of issues with components being affected by the increase in temperature need to get the solder to flow/print on the circuit board. He wasn't aware of lead-free solder not lasting as long as lead-based though.

One of two things often happen in that situation:
1 - The connection is overheated, leading to overheating of components and board traces
2 - The joint is a "cold" joint with insufficient solder whetting

There is a parallel issue of excessive paste flux being used due to the issues with getting the solder to flow, and if not fully cleaned off, it can cause problems.

_________________
-- Rich


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Post subject: Re: NAMM - Amps you'd like to see?
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:38 am
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Thanks Rich.

That's exactly what my cellmate (i.e work bud ) was talking about

I wonder what Fender's scrap fallout is on the PCBs. (come to think of it..... do they even manufacture PCBs internally or do they farm the process out?)

I've wondered about the thickness of the PCB that Fender uses. As in "If there is a reason other than it's a cost saving on Fender's part." What is the impact of a board's thickness on manufacturing with lead-free solder? (wetting the board and all...) The thicker the board seems to translate, to thicker traces... but not being exposed to that industry that's an assumption on my part.

It's interesting stuff.


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