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Post subject: Re: NAMM - Amps you'd like to see?
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:23 am
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Matt, there's no issue with PCB's, at least for me. It's what FMIC populates them with -- crap components good for a year (mebbe!), assembled with guaranteed-to-flake-off RoHS-compliant solder, all stuffed into a landfill-friendly bio-degradable cabinet along with some sleazy "re-issue" speaker. Adding insult to injury, some poindexter in R&D decides to overcomplicate the new wünderamp with a load of unnecessary digital effects.

If it only cost $50 to build a thousand-dollar amp correctly would you pay the extra fifty bucks?

Arjay

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Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: NAMM - Amps you'd like to see?
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:37 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
FMIC is in business to make money selling amps by the bucketful.


Therein lies the problem, as one scans 360 degrees.

UN


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Post subject: Re: NAMM - Amps you'd like to see?
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:35 am
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I'd pay an extra $150 if it meant longevity.
That's why I said reliable.

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Post subject: Re: NAMM - Amps you'd like to see?
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:05 am
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There are just so many 5e3 clones and DIY kits Fender probably would price themselves out of the mix.
I'm sure they would have to "fully commit" to return to the top of the heap, a lot of folks would probably loose there jobs as it would be a re-birthing in a smaller scale environment.
Of all the recent reborn label offerings I've seen, Supro seems committed. I really like the sound of there Blues King.

Also the video didn't show the 65 DR from the custom shop, I think it's a package w/ a Strat. Bare engraved wood, country style.


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Post subject: Re: NAMM - Amps you'd like to see?
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:00 pm
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No I'm not saying that.
I'm just saying do a re-issue.
Use a good quality PCB design.
Just don't build it cheap like the HR series.
Do it like the DRRI.
Call it a TwDRI or whatever.
Or like the '59 Bassman just call it a '59 Deluxe.
The '65 DRRI is proof if they do it right and keep the price reasonable people will buy it.
The '64 DRRI (and also the '57 Deluxe) is proof that there are only so many people willing to shell out the kind of cash it takes to get a true PTP DRRI.
Build it on the level of the '65 DRRI and price it accordingly and I'm betting it would sell.

Just ..... just .... keep the damned gimmicks out of it.
It doesn't need gimmicks.
No EC badging.
No added features.

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Post subject: Re: NAMM - Amps you'd like to see?
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:57 pm
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It's sad that what started as an amplifier (radio) company turned into a company that really would be better off spinning off the product line to another company (or even subsidiary) who would be willing to fix the quality problems while maintaining a competitive price level.
They've already put production in Mexico... just move it to Indonesia already, but pay enough to get a quality product. It is just as true in Asia as it is anywhere else, "You get what you pay for". We're accustomed to paying dirt cheap prices for Chinese products, and we get dirt cheap quality.... but the Chinese landed a rover on the far side of the moon AND a relay satellite to communicate with it.

Marshall, Vox... heck, Samsung and LG seem to have no problem building electronic products that last for years... in rough consumer conditions.

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Post subject: Re: NAMM - Amps you'd like to see?
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:06 pm
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Here's a shot of the inside of the new 6G2. (from Fender's website) Wonder why they bothered with the ground switch.
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Post subject: Re: NAMM - Amps you'd like to see?
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:09 pm
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LOL

Ground switch.
:lol:
Maybe its a free switch for use as a spare.

There is something else I think Fender should make.
I have always wondered why there's never been decent extension cabinets for blackface combos.
Particularly the Deluxe Reverb, since I assume it must be the best selling of the '65 re-issue series.
Even in the aftermarket you don't see them and I find that strange.
You'd think there would be at least some demand for such a thing.
I know many years ago there was an official "extension cab for the DR" but it was just a DR combo cabinet with no amp in it and a tolex covered blank that went into the slanted panel slot and it looked just plain goofy.
The tapered box, the angled top and the blank filling in the hole looked dumb on an extension cabinet.
It looked exactly like what it really was; a half-hearted, makeshift solution.
I think they should make a 112 blackface style cabinet, 24.5" wide, 12" deep, 16" high but with a straight front and no goofy blanks.
Something that looks like it was built exactly for the purpose of sitting under the DRRI.
The could offer two back panels for it so the user could choose open or closed back.
I'm betting those would sell too.
Maybe not in huge numbers but they would sell.
There would be very little R&D required to design it and no special tooling outside the norm.
If I had a DR I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
I love the sound of an open back combo paired with a closed back extension.

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Post subject: Re: NAMM - Amps you'd like to see?
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:40 pm
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vinyl wrote:
Here's a shot of the inside of the new 6G2.
Image


Back to sleep for me.

:roll:
Arjay

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Post subject: Re: NAMM - Amps you'd like to see?
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:56 pm
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Rog, you don't think it's funny that there's a switch with nothing connected to it?
I find it hilarious.

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Post subject: Re: NAMM - Amps you'd like to see?
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:42 pm
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Unless the other switch is an Off-Standby-On, then the extra hole can be used for a standby mod.
Looks like the terminals have been clipped from that switch, so you'll need your own.
Fender ain't giving you anything for free :lol:
Edit: Nope, simple On-Off

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Post subject: Re: NAMM - Amps you'd like to see?
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:47 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Rog, you don't think it's funny that there's a switch with nothing connected to it?
I find it hilarious.


Not the first time I've seen it -- both my '93 DRRI and my 1999 TRRI have them. Like a fork in the road that goes nowhere. In the case of my DRRI it did come in handy. I used it to wire up my multi-tap output tranny. I can safely run the amp at full-tilt with either a 4Ω or 8Ω load all day long. It sounds massive driving a pair of 15-inch JBL D130's.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: NAMM - Amps you'd like to see?
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:56 pm
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Maybe it's a damn pacifier, ya know, when life gets to tough just switch it back and forth for comfort.

UN


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Post subject: Re: NAMM - Amps you'd like to see?
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:18 am
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Are those diodes on the plates of the 6v6's socket terminals and maybe on the rectifier tube socket as well?


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Post subject: Re: NAMM - Amps you'd like to see?
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:07 pm
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Does fender use bad or poor components?

Sounds good but...

As a materials manager for a tier 1 supplier. I have to say it more complex than one might think, it's not that simple...

ISO certified companies like FMIC don't by components on the cheap. They have strict QT SOPs they must follow. Recalls and a PR hits to the Brand name are costly.

Electrical component suppliers have to have detailed quality documentation and traceability before a company like FMIC will do business with them. The components have to be guaranteed to last at least the warranty of the product, which with Fender is currently 5 years. In fact, every component (caps and resistors etc) that Fender uses has a traceability lots so if there is a problem Fender can localize it. Current practice is if the part in question fails and causes a recall or generates repair costs in the field, the supplier picks up all costs.

What supplier would sign a contract with FMIC to be responsible for recalls and warranty repair cost and then supply FMIC with bad/cheap components? None that I know... Won't be in business for long if they do.

When Fender has a problem it is 99% Fender... that means 99% of the time it's in the manufacturing process, not the raw materials. Who remembers those bad resistors at R78 & R79 on the first HRD that caused the channel switching to fail? A couple of things could have happened and none could have been Fender's fault.

The normal supplier fell behind and Fender had to use an unsafe supplier to keep up with demand. (In modern manufacturing it happens and its always a risk) There is a ton of counterfeit cheap electrical components on the market.. Most company will not deal with Internet outlets like Mouser or Digikey etc (way too much suspect parts, no documentation, no traceability and no guarantee to stand by the part. FMIC wouldn't even think about using an outlet like this. Yet Bad components can happen if the supply chain isn't watching what they are doing.

Those bad resistors on the early HRDs probably got a Senior Buyer fired if he went outside the proper suppliers. Or the actual supplier developed quality issues and it wasn't found till after the HRD units were sold and went into the field (in which case Fender made supplier pay for the warranty work and then fired the supplier.)

A lot goes into buying raw materials like electrical components. Senior buyers (they are the ones who set up suppliers..) do look at cost savings, but that's just one factor: the part suppliers business reputation, their quality record, their logistic KPI's ... Many factors are in play . It's a safe bet 99% of all senior buyers will go with the more expensive part over a cheaper part... if the cheap part is being supplied by a suspect supplier. What good is a cheaper part if it cost you a production line down, or expensive warranties costs in the field etc...

Fender has a 5 yr warranty. IMO That's pretty good for electronics. Does Sony have a free 5 yr warranty on their flat screen TVs? How about appliances? Does Whirlpool, Maytag etc have a free 5 yr warranty on their washers and dryers? How about computers? Does Apple have a free 5 yr warranty on their laptops?

Not defending FMIC, just pointing out that Fender is pretty confident in their quality. Which does lead me to suspect what people say on the internet about Fender's quality, I suspect the reality is way different? FMIC towers over it's nearest competitor, how is that happening? Stands to reason that for every one complaint on the internet there are a plethora of satisfied customers that go unheard.

People often cite how cheaply made a modern Fender like a HRD is , I get that... they often go on to reference vintage HW amps. Agreed!!! when compared to them, But what most fail to ask " was that modern PCB amp made good enough for what it was designed to do?

To me those are two seperate issues


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