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Post subject: Hot Rod Deluxe IV with 1 x 12 cab vs Hot Rod Deville IV 212
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:28 pm
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I recently refurbished and modded an American made Hot Rod Deluxe and when I got finished with it I thought it sounded pretty damn good. I gave it to my girl friends brother and I have been wanting to try out one of the model Hot Rod Model IV amps with a new Gibson SG I bought.

Anybody own one of the new models or possibly both? I like an amp with a lot of headroom in the cleans, really looking for some feedback on the grit sound and if they have worked out the kinks enough to just plug and play..

I have plenty of clean amps, but none that will do the grit out of the box and I really started to like that with that older Hot Rod Deluxe.. I was wondering is it really worth just getting the 2 x 12 version or maybe just use a cab with the 1 x12.. The demo's I have heard on youtube make me sort of lean towards the 2 x 12 version..

Just sort of throwing this out there..

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe IV with 1 x 12 cab vs Hot Rod Deville IV
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:03 pm
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Quote:
I was wondering is it really worth just getting the 2 x 12 version or ...


The Deville is not just a bigger version of the Deluxe.
They are not the same thing but with a different number of speakers.
They are different amps with different circuits.

The Deville is the better sounding amp in my opinion but it's a heavier beast.

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe IV with 1 x 12 cab vs Hot Rod Deville IV
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:24 pm
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Ditto on the Deville, my ears like what I hear, just from the demos I have heard that thing has some room filling tone, even just at room level. One of the reasons I like my Twin Reverbs and my Blues Deville 410. Not that I like them screaming loud, they just really have a lot quevos in a room level setting. I can play those for a while and my Deluxe Reverb and Blues Deluxe sound like little toys..

So a different circuit, just different in it gets 60 watts out of those 6L6 instead of 40 watts, or a different tone circuit, or both..

With the new pine cabs, I have read they have lightened up quite a bit..

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe IV with 1 x 12 cab vs Hot Rod Deville IV
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:28 pm
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I believe they do share some of the same circuitry in the preamp section but I don't know how much they share.
I'm not an amp tech, just an amp enthusiast.
The power section will be different. Obviously.
We have some pretty good amp guys here who can better answer technical questions.

From the standpoint of the guitar player, they are very different amps and that's mostly what I was driving at.

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe IV with 1 x 12 cab vs Hot Rod Deville IV
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:06 am
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There are two significant differences in the preamp.
First is C23 in the drive control circuit. The Deluxe pinches off a lot of bass with 560pf. The Deville has more bass with a 1500pf in that position.
This is the same value used in the original HRDX
Next is the treble bleed cap across the Master control. The Deluxe has a 1000pf in C11 across the Master. The Deville uses a 390pf that allows more midrange through. Again, the Deville uses the same value as the original HRDX.
So the modern Deville would generally be warmer than the Deluxe in overdrive and the same as an older deluxe.
Side by side, the difference would be very apparent.
The twin speakers would also put an acoustic edge to the music, not as clean as a single speaker.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe IV with 1 x 12 cab vs Hot Rod Deville IV
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:35 am
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I am ordering one of the Devilles today, I really wish they had a head version of that thing. I think I am going to do some tinkering with it. I bet that chassis will fit right into my Blues Deluxe 1 x 12 cab with a Swamp Thang in it or my Blues Deville 4 x 10 cab with Ragin Cajuns and vice versa.

MojoTone makes a head cab for those, might just go that route..

Give it a try and break the speakers in first and go from there..

Might post some demo videos..

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In the hands of the right people it can change the world. Not bad for a hunk of ash, a few magnets, and some wire.
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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe IV with 1 x 12 cab vs Hot Rod Deville IV
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:24 pm
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You lost me at 12" speakers. Try a 410 DeVille if you can find one. And if heavy works for you.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe IV with 1 x 12 cab vs Hot Rod Deville IV
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:43 pm
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I have a 1 x 12 cab for my Blues Deluxe. That Hot Rod Deville might sound good as a two piece, the Blues Deluxe sounds pretty awesome that way..

I do have a Blues Deville 410, heavy as a beatch but sounds really good..

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In the hands of the right people it can change the world. Not bad for a hunk of ash, a few magnets, and some wire.
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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe IV with 1 x 12 cab vs Hot Rod Deville IV
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:44 pm
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majorbytes wrote:
I am ordering one of the Devilles today .... I bet that chassis will fit right into .... my Blues Deville 4 x 10 cab
So you already have a Blues Deville and a Blues Deluxe. You already own the better versions of both of those amps if you ask me. Unless you are wanting back up amps for emergency use or just want to collect several examples from the same amp families I don't see why you'd order another.

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe IV with 1 x 12 cab vs Hot Rod Deville IV
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:00 pm
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I like stereo rigs, sort of hoping the newer drive/more drive channel of the model IV Deville will go well with my Blues Deluxe, Deville or vintage Twin Reverbs cleans, as a stereo rig..

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In the hands of the right people it can change the world. Not bad for a hunk of ash, a few magnets, and some wire.
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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe IV with 1 x 12 cab vs Hot Rod Deville IV
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:33 pm
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Nah.
Don't bother.
The "more drive" is a useless feature.
If you search, you will find at minimum 100 dislikes for every 1 like when it comes to the "more drive" thing.
Common knowledge is that Fender missed the boat there.
You already have the better amps with the Blues versions.

If you like stereo rigs I suggest you use different amps.
I like to run one low power amp set to deliver some break up along side another larger amp set to deliver a deeper, cleaner, chimier tone.
Use the volumes of each to balance how much of each gets used in the final mix.
It's a very compelling sound.
An ABY box works well on the Y setting.
You get the bite and grit of an amp pushed hard as well as the clarity and chime and definition of a deep throaty clean amp.
This is the magic secret of how Stevie Ray got his sound. (other than his hands)
He was well known for running a whole bunch of amps simultaneously in the studio, each set at various stages of clean/overdrive.

I use this exact approach all the time with my modern gear.
I have a pedal board that allows multiple signal paths and I will set up a cleaner, deeper, chimier tone to run concurrently with a mid-pushed higher gain tone.
I use that approach to get tones you hear all the time on popular recordings but you just cannot duplicate with a simpler rig.

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe IV with 1 x 12 cab vs Hot Rod Deville IV
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:54 pm
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I totally agree about the Blues Deluxe and the Blues Deville. After I modded those two amps, they are both killer.

Did not have to do a whole lot to the Blues Deluxe, 12ay7 in V2 and an Eminence Swamp Thang put it right where I wanted it.. The American Blues Deville 410 was a little more work, switched pots, jacks, reflowed solder, 12ay7 in v2, two Eminence Ragin Cajuns, two Eminence Legends, good to go, but heavy as a beatch. I have it in my barn studio/sound room where I can let the 60 watts breath a little and I don't have to move it... The Blues Deluxe stays in my house studio along with the Deluxe Reverb, 1981 Blackface 135 watt Twin Reverb, which is another heavy beast since I put a Texas Heat and a Swamp Thang in it..

The American made Hot Rod Deluxe I fixed and modded sounded pretty decent on the dirt channel, but I gave it away before I could really toy with it much. But while I had it, the new SG I got really wailed in it with the 490R/490T pickups.

I have a few ABY's, using a Big Shot ABY on my main board now.. Also an old Morley ABY volume pedal. Use an Ebtech two channel hum eliminator, if I absolutely have to, between the amps to kill any hum..

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I have tried a lot of stereo setups with the amps I have from two Fender Champion 40's, to two vintage Twin Reverbs, depends on what tone I am looking for when I am writing songs or just practicing. Those two Champion 40's are pretty amazing in the headphones miked up in my DAW, wish they had effects loops.. My Deluxe Reverb in stereo with a 1976 Fender Musicmaster Bass amp is pretty good also..

I am going to give this Hot Rod Deville IV 212 a try out using the dirt with a TC Electronics Mimic in stereo with a 1973 100watt Twin Reverb out in the barn studio miked up. I can crank them up out there in a sound room.

I like the smaller size of that Hot Rod Deville 212 cab and it is pine vs my Blues Deville 410, which I think is plywood.

I have plenty of dirt pedals if the dirt is crap, kind of hoping it is not in the model IV's. Then I can have the guitar just going straight into the amp with just a cable. Use the effects loop for the modulation/delay/rotary/volume pedal. I am also hoping the effects loop is as good as the one in the Blues Deluxe and the Blues Deville I have.. I really like having an effects loop..

One of the reply's answered my one question I had about the tone circuit being different in the Hot Rod Deville vs the Hot Rod Deluxe. I knew the 40 vs 60 had to be different in the power section, but did not know the preamps were different also..

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In the hands of the right people it can change the world. Not bad for a hunk of ash, a few magnets, and some wire.
Band Site
http://www.reverbnation.com/bigskybluesband
Demos
http://www.youtube.com/user/bigskybluesband


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe IV with 1 x 12 cab vs Hot Rod Deville IV
Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:39 pm
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So FedEX dropped a new Fender Hot Rod Deville IV 212 on my porch today..

First impressions, although the speakers need more time to sweeten it up a bit, I think Fender might have finally gotten the Drive and More Drive figured out.. Only took 20 years or so, but I think they finally nailed it in the IV version. At least for an overdrive tone, blues, classic rock, jazz, etc.. Don't think it is going to get into Metal territory, but they have other amps and pedals for that..

I ran my Strat HSS with two Dimarzio Virtual Vintage Heavy Blues 2 and one Dimarzio X2N in the bridge and also a 2017 SG with 490R/490T, straight into the amp with a coiled VOX cable. Set everything on 6, reverb on 3, drive on 12 and it was pretty damn good right out of the box.

It is really not that heavy and totally manageable, a hell of a lot lighter than my Blues Deville 410 and 1981 linear Twin Reverb. I really like the offset speaker arrangement, one low, one high, I think it projects the sound more balanced that way.. Not as grab and go as my Deluxe Reverb, but holds a hell of a lot of power in a sort of small package. Looks around six inches taller than my Blues Deluxe..

My sound room is pretty dead silent and on 6 this amp is pretty silent after the standby is kicked off, no hum whatsoever, and only a little hiss on the drive and more drive. Much better to my ears than the crap humming $@! 68 Custom Twin Reverb I had..

Time to test the effects loop and some pedals..

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In the hands of the right people it can change the world. Not bad for a hunk of ash, a few magnets, and some wire.
Band Site
http://www.reverbnation.com/bigskybluesband
Demos
http://www.youtube.com/user/bigskybluesband


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe IV with 1 x 12 cab vs Hot Rod Deville IV
Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:18 pm
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Thirty or forty hours of vigorous play should improve the speakers significantly.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe IV with 1 x 12 cab vs Hot Rod Deville IV
Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:43 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Thirty or forty hours of vigorous play should improve the speakers significantly.

Arjay


I left that amp banging a loop when I left my sound room, might be loosened up by the morning.. Do a little durability testing on it as well at the same time..

No smoke or flames out of that thing yet, that 68 Custom Twin Reverb I had threw sparks across my studio once..

Might do some preamp tube swaps tomorrow, just for a listen, I have been swapping out 12ax7's for 12ay7's in a lot of my amps, some sound good in v1, some sound good in v2. Mostly v2 seems to work the best..

The dirt channel is very usable at volume, sounds better with the strat in my ears. Had to crank the treble up a lot for the SG.. Might just be me, but Gibsons always seem to sound like a strat with a head cold in Fender amps, unless the treble is cranked way up..

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In the hands of the right people it can change the world. Not bad for a hunk of ash, a few magnets, and some wire.
Band Site
http://www.reverbnation.com/bigskybluesband
Demos
http://www.youtube.com/user/bigskybluesband


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