It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:07 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
Post subject: New Mod for Hot Rod Deluxe
Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:29 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:25 pm
Posts: 1023
This is about a series of mods to improve the sound of a Hot Rod Deluxe, original and reissue. It is especially useful for players who can't crank it up past 2 or 3. These will not be found anywhere else. I have developed them in secret, until now.
It all started in 2007 when Rich asked me to modify his HRDX into something like an old Fender BF. He had a Mesa for high gain and this was sittin around not being used.
So I channeled Leo and removed one tube stage and seven resistors in the signal path to compensate. It was ten jumpers and sounded pretty good. Later, it got 270k plate resistors to bump up the gain a bit. It was a rats nest of wires, but the beginnings of the TBV mod.
Over the next ten years, I fiddled with different ideas and perfected the mod. It keeps the tube stage and stock gain, but reroutes the signal path. It addresses the muddiness at low volume settings on the Hot Rod and improves definition throughout all volumes.
You can appreciate the improvement by comparing the Hot Rod signal path to the BF/SF topology. A BF Fender input goes to the preamp and then the tone control, then the volume control. The HRDX sends the signal to the volume controls before the tone controls. If the volume is turned down, the capacitors in the tone stack get very little signal compared with the BF/SF tone stack.
So I move two parts, cut one trace and add a jumper to reroute the HRDX signal path into the tone before volume or TBV, configuration. There were two approaches I used. The grid swap method and the plate swap method. I settled on plate swap mostly for ease of mod.
I developed this mod for Blues Deluxe and Blues Jr as they have the same layout. I will be posting each of these separately. Each has their own iteration of the Tone Before Volume mod.
You have to pull the board away from the chassis. If you don't know how to do that safely, stop reading and forward this to your qualified tech.
1 Remove R8 100k and R41 10 k
2 Cut trace at V1 pin2 on the main board to R1/R2
3 install jumper from R1/R2 to R41 +Pin7 of V1
4 install 10k resistor from R41 to R8 +Pin2 of V2
5 Install 100k resistor from R8 to pin2 of V1
Hot Rod TBV mod
https://imgur.com/gallery/xyDZKZt
Early Hot Rod TBV Mod Image

Instructions for reissue Hot Rods
There are 2 shielded wires connected to the first preamp tube
Remove the one on the right
Disconnect the one on the left from the main board. Reconnect it on the main board where the cable on the right was removed at wj19a and wj20a.
Unsolder and pull the end of R8 nearest the edge of the board.
Using a short jumper wire, connect the free end of R8 to wj21 on the main board.
Using the coax wire removed in step 1, solder the white wire into the hole left by R8. Solder the shield wire to the resistor R17, next door.
Solder the other end to the tube board where the right side coax was removed. Its not long enough, so wire it into the back side.


HRDXreissue http://imgur.com/gallery/W1BqR2a
[img]<blockquote%20class="imgur-embed-pub"%20lang="en"%20data-id="a/93sUEtw"><a%20href="//imgur.com/93sUEtw"></a></blockquote><script%20async%20src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js"%20charset="utf-8"></script>[/img]
Naw, this aint working.
The option for bb codes doesn't come up on my tablet app. I do get an embed option when i use the desktop site, but it still doesn't work. Any ideas? I fried my brain long enough on this one. Im gonna go fire up my chainsaw and take it out on a Maple log. See ya.

You can use the old resistors, but new one with long leads work better. Once its done and tested, anchor the mod to the board with silicone for vibration control.


Last edited by TimsAudio on Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:26 am, edited 10 times in total.

Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: New Mod for Hot Rod Deluxe
Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 4:25 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:07 pm
Posts: 604
Thanks for the tips.

_________________
dbm
If it sounds good it is good.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... tent=music


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: New Mod for Hot Rod Deluxe
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:37 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:40 pm
Posts: 75
TimsAudio wrote:
This is about a series of mods to improve the sound of a Hot Rod Deluxe, original and reissue. It is especially useful for players who can't crank it up past 2 or 3. These will not be found anywhere else. I have developed them in secret, until now.
It all started in 2007 when Rich asked me to modify his HRDX into something like an old Fender BF. He had a Mesa for high gain and this was sittin around not being used.
So I channeled Leo and removed one tube stage and seven resistors in the signal path to compensate. It was ten jumpers and sounded pretty good. Later, it got 270k plate resistors to bump up the gain a bit. It was a rats nest of wires, but the beginnings of the TBV mod.
Over the next ten years, I fiddled with different ideas and perfected the mod. It keeps the tube stage and stock gain, but reroutes the signal path. It addresses the muddiness at low volume settings on the Hot Rod and improves definition throughout all volumes.
You can appreciate the improvement by comparing the Hot Rod signal path to the BF/SF topology. A BF Fender input goes to the preamp and then the tone control, then the volume control. The HRDX sends the signal to the volume controls before the tone controls. If the volume is turned down, the capacitors in the tone stack get very little signal compared with the BF/SF tone stack.
So I move two parts, cut one trace and add a jumper to reroute the HRDX signal path into the tone before volume or TBV, configuration. There were two approaches I used. The grid swap method and the plate swap method. I settled on plate swap mostly for ease of mod.
I developed this mod for Blues Deluxe and Blues Jr as they have the same layout. I will be posting each of these separately. Each has their own iteration of the Tone Before Volume mod.
You have to pull the board away from the chassis. If you don't know how to do that safely, stop reading and forward this to your qualified tech.
1 Remove R8 100k and R41 10 k
2 Cut trace at V1 pin2 on the main board to R1/R2
3 install jumper from R1/R2 to R41 +Pin7 of V1
4 install 10k resistor from R41 to R8 +Pin2 of V2
5 Install 100k resistor from R8 to pin2 of V1
Image I'm working on getting the pics up.
You can use the old resistors, but new one with long leads work better. Once its done and tested, anchor the mod to the board with silicone for vibration control.


Hello Tim

Finally I found the TBV for the Hot Rod here. I have a Deville, but I suppose this mod will work the same for my amp. In 2017 you talk me (in the Fromel kit mod post) about a mod that make the amp sound better not different, and believe it or not I've been waiting for your disclosure since then. I'm more than excited to try it. Once I get so see the picture and figure it out the details I'll explained it to a experimented repair guy step by step how to do it for me. For what I see the only new parts needed for this mod are 10K and 100K resistor right?

When I see the board I can easily spot R8, R41, R1,R2

But can't spot:
- trace at V1 pin 2
- pin 7 of V1
- pin 2 of V2
- pin 2 of V1


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: New Mod for Hot Rod Deluxe
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:14 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:40 pm
Posts: 75
Hello Tim

I know is difficult to post a pic (myself couldn't be able to post the first one). do you think is possible to send the pic to my email? I already know you said all questions only trough the forum, but I see it's the only way for now.

:D :D :D


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: New Mod for Hot Rod Deluxe
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:49 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:40 pm
Posts: 75
Tim, I manage to open the link and see the pic. Thank you very very much. By the way those resistors dont seem 10K and 100K.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: New Mod for Hot Rod Deluxe
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:30 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14045
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
algajgg wrote:
Tim, I manage to open the link and see the pic. Thank you very very much. By the way those resistors dont seem 10K and 100K.


They are on my cshematic;

R8 100 K on V2a-2
R41 10K on V1b-6


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: New Mod for Hot Rod Deluxe
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:00 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:40 pm
Posts: 75
stratele52 wrote:
algajgg wrote:
Tim, I manage to open the link and see the pic. Thank you very very much. By the way those resistors dont seem 10K and 100K.


They are on my cshematic;

R8 100 K on V2a-2
R41 10K on V1b-6


Hello Stratele52

Yes, I found the schematic and I'm trying to interpret it in order to explain to the repair guy step by step what to do. My native language is spanish and I'll need to translate to the repair guy. By the way which is your native language?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: New Mod for Hot Rod Deluxe
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:08 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14045
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
algajgg wrote:
stratele52 wrote:
algajgg wrote:
Tim, I manage to open the link and see the pic. Thank you very very much. By the way those resistors dont seem 10K and 100K.


They are on my cshematic;

R8 100 K on V2a-2
R41 10K on V1b-6


Hello Stratele52

Yes, I found the schematic and I'm trying to interpret it in order to explain to the repair guy step by step what to do. My native language is spanish and I'll need to translate to the repair guy. By the way which is your native language?


Did you see the resitors value now ? ¿Viste el valor de la resistencia ahora?

I'm french speaking from Canada. Knowing American is useful because we are neighbors.

¿Eres de España o Sudamérica?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: New Mod for Hot Rod Deluxe
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:25 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:40 pm
Posts: 75
stratele52 wrote:
algajgg wrote:
stratele52 wrote:
algajgg wrote:
Tim, I manage to open the link and see the pic. Thank you very very much. By the way those resistors dont seem 10K and 100K.


They are on my cshematic;

R8 100 K on V2a-2
R41 10K on V1b-6


Hello Stratele52

Yes, I found the schematic and I'm trying to interpret it in order to explain to the repair guy step by step what to do. My native language is spanish and I'll need to translate to the repair guy. By the way which is your native language?


Did you see the resitors value now ? ¿Viste el valor de la resistencia ahora?

I'm french speaking from Canada. Knowing American is useful because we are neighbors.

¿Eres de España o Sudamérica?


Stratele como estas? que hables espa;ol es una bendición para mi. Soy de Venezuela. Tim dice que se pueden usar las mismas resistencias R8 y R41 que estan originalmente instaladas en el amp para hacer la modificación. Pero que la única desventaja sería que esas resistencias viejas tienen las patas muy cortas, por lo que habría que soldarle unas patas adicionales más largas para poder llevarlas al punto.

En la foto que subió Tim puedo ver que cambió la resistencia de carbón R8 (100K) original que trae el amp por una de metal film del mismo valor. Mas sin embargo para R41 (10K) veo que siguió usando carbón . Me llama la atención que ambas resistencias R8 y R41 originalmente son de 1/4 de watt, y si no estoy equivocado Tim usó 1/2 watt para la modificación. Que crees tu que sea lo recomendable?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: New Mod for Hot Rod Deluxe
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:59 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14045
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
algajgg wrote:


Stratele como estas? que hables espa;ol es una bendición para mi. Soy de Venezuela. Tim dice que se pueden usar las mismas resistencias R8 y R41 que estan originalmente instaladas en el amp para hacer la modificación. Pero que la única desventaja sería que esas resistencias viejas tienen las patas muy cortas, por lo que habría que soldarle unas patas adicionales más largas para poder llevarlas al punto.

En la foto que subió Tim puedo ver que cambió la resistencia de carbón R8 (100K) original que trae el amp por una de metal film del mismo valor. Mas sin embargo para R41 (10K) veo que siguió usando carbón . Me llama la atención que ambas resistencias R8 y R41 originalmente son de 1/4 de watt, y si no estoy equivocado Tim usó 1/2 watt para la modificación. Que crees tu que sea lo recomendable?


I use google translate , I don't speak Spanish :oops:
Best is to write in American english. Tim is the pro here
_____________________________________________

Here what you write in spanish ;

Stratele how are you? that you speak spanish is a blessing for me. I am from Venezuela. Tim says that the same resistors R8 and R41 that are originally installed in the amp can be used to make the modification. But the only disadvantage would be that these old resistances have very short legs, so we would have to weld additional legs longer to take them to the point.

In the photo that show Tim I can see that changed the original R8 (100K) carbon resistance that brings the amp for a metal film of the same value. However, for R41 (10K) I see that he continued to use carbon comp. It strikes me that both resistors R8 and R41 are originally 1/4 watt, and if I'm not wrong Tim used 1/2 watt for the modification. What do you think is advisable?
____________________________________

My answer ;

Original resistor are 1/4 watts ? I don't know, I always use 1/2 watts.

Tim will answer.

I pray for your country in these difficult times. :(


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: New Mod for Hot Rod Deluxe
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:20 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:40 pm
Posts: 75
Ok Stratele for an instance I tought you could speak spanish. Yes Tim is indisputably the expert in this place, he is always eager to give us a hand and help. Let's wait for him.

Thank you very much for your best wishes for my people and my country.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: New Mod for Hot Rod Deluxe
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:54 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:25 pm
Posts: 1023
That blue body resistor indicates a metal film resistor. The color codes are Brown Black Black Red brown.
The last brown stripe indicates a 1% resistor. These have 3 significant numbers before the multiplier stripe.
So a normally striped 5% 10K resistor would go Brown Black Orange, the 10K Metal would go Brown Black Black Red, with the tolerance stripe Brown or red for a 2% resistor.
The important thing here is that these are not hard values. One of the 10Ks is a replacement, but the other are trim values to approximate the original signal levels. At one point, I did the mod with one resistor and 2 jumpers. Feel free to freelance.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: New Mod for Hot Rod Deluxe
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:50 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:54 pm
Posts: 618
Maybe this will help you explain it to your technician combined with Tim's picture.
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: New Mod for Hot Rod Deluxe
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:57 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:40 pm
Posts: 75
TimsAudio wrote:
That blue body resistor indicates a metal film resistor. The color codes are Brown Black Black Red brown.
The last brown stripe indicates a 1% resistor. These have 3 significant numbers before the multiplier stripe.
So a normally striped 5% 10K resistor would go Brown Black Orange, the 10K Metal would go Brown Black Black Red, with the tolerance stripe Brown or red for a 2% resistor.
The important thing here is that these are not hard values. One of the 10Ks is a replacement, but the other are trim values to approximate the original signal levels. At one point, I did the mod with one resistor and 2 jumpers. Feel free to freelance.


Thank you once more Tim for sharing all your wisdom with us. Before trying the mod I would like to know if this TBV is compatible with the C1 mod? The stock value in my Deville is 47uf and right now has the 2,2uf you recommend me.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: New Mod for Hot Rod Deluxe
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:58 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14045
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
algajgg wrote:
Ok Stratele for an instance I tought you could speak spanish. Yes Tim is indisputably the expert in this place, he is always eager to give us a hand and help. Let's wait for him.

Thank you very much for your best wishes for my people and my country.



Goggle translation is a powerful tool and very usefull.

Your american english is better than mine :oops:


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: