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Post subject: Hot Rod Deluxe took another dive today
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:22 pm
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Hot Rod Deluxe took another dive today, the repair guy is outta town till the 5th. Bad news, the amp is acting up. There is something wrong with the channel switching operation. I never use the drive channel really, and the pedal is not plugged in, but all of the sudden today the amp is switching itself from the clean channel to the drive channel and sometimes the more drive light comes on when I switch the standby switch to standby. The amp is making a loud pop when I touch the standby switch after trying to turn it back on to play mode. All the channel switching operations are happening randomly without me asking it to do so. Weird.

I sure hope he can fix it, he told me he would repair anything that went wrong with the amp for one year except a transformer failure due to a blown tube. Then he would charge me @ cost only for the transformer part, other than that he says he will fix it free, for one year.

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe took another dive today
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:54 pm
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That's a very typical problem with the HRD's.
It probably needs to have a couple resistors replaced R78, R79.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe took another dive today
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:13 pm
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Notorious, common issue with the earlier versions of the HRD. There are two large cermet resistors in the switching circuit that generate so much heat they damage their solder joints. (Cermet resistors are rectangular white ceramic, very distinctive and easy to recognize.)

The quick easy fix is to simply resolder them. But eventually the problem will reoccur.

Proper fix is to replace them, and not cut the leads on the new ones so short. That leaves the resistors standing off the board and not soaking the solder joints with heat.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe took another dive today
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:28 pm
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Some people advocate changing the 470 ohm 5 watt cermets to 330 ohm 5 watts. Other people say keep the original value.

Some people advocate putting blobs of high temp silicone adhesive between the resistors and the board when elevating them. Others don't.

Fender put hard bends on the leads, right where they exit the resistors. When replacing, it's very helpful to leave the leads straight where the exit the resistors, and make a gentler bend. Keeps the leads a little cooler and helps them dissipate heat before they get to the solder joints.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe took another dive today
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:08 pm
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Changing the resistors to 330 ohms will generate more heat than with the 470 ohm. Changing the resistor value is a horrible idea. Whoever came up with that idea doesn’t have a clue. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe took another dive today
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:30 pm
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My impression is that people think that since 330's are used in Devilles that they should be used in Deluxes.

But there are claims that Fender sent out a tech bulletin suggesting the change.

And there are claims that Justin Holton's "unofficial HRD owner's guide" endorsed the change to 330. (That site seems to be gone and it's not my amp so I didn't search for mirror sites.)

I know from the symptoms that the cermets are the problem. I know resoldering the joints will fix the problem for a while (maybe forever if you're lucky -- those joints don't always fail on every HRD). I know that elevating the cermets with longer leads drastically reduces the chances of reoccurrence.

Value change and silicone are things I've read. I wasn't endorsing them, just reporting that some people advocate them.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe took another dive today
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:37 pm
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And yes, earlier I did say that the problem would reoccur if the stock cermets are just resoldered.

Should have said "might reoccur". But the opening post implied that this amp has had other problems, and that the seller has given his own 1 year warranty. With that history I'd insist on the proper repair.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe took another dive today
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:17 am
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shimmilou wrote:
Changing the resistors to 330 ohms will generate more heat than with the 470 ohm. Changing the resistor value is a horrible idea. Whoever came up with that idea doesn’t have a clue. :wink:



+100

Another bad idea / mod read on the web :(


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe took another dive today
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:12 am
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Oh, went back and read previous threads.

https://forums.fender.com/viewtopic.php ... 2&start=15

Amp went in for repair. Tech said he went through it and preemptively fixed all the common problems. Including reflowing all solder joints. Gave 1 year warranty.

The cermets are the most common problem with the HRD I & II. Not super impressed that the problem first appeared after he preemptively fixed it.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe took another dive today
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:57 am
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Thanks all, very good and knowledgeable info in your responses, I have confidence in your answers and sent them off to the amp guy's e-mail. We shall see what occurs when he gets back from vacation.

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe took another dive today
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:37 am
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If the cermet resistors have been done, look on the left end of the board at R97. It's a 1.2k 2 watt resistor that also gets hot and can cause switching problems.

My cure for the cermet resistors is to scrape the solder mask away from the lead pad, down the traces. Then tin it. Do the same for the zeners there too. This increases heat dissipation on the bottom side.
Then I parallel two 1K 5 watt resistors in a piggyback configuration for a total 500 ohms. Silicone the two together and to the board to prevent vibration failures.
This dissipates more heat top side and lowers peak temperatures overall


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe took another dive today
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:17 pm
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strayedstrater wrote:
My impression is that people think that since 330's are used in Devilles that they should be used in Deluxes...


Maybe so, but they are apparently unaware that the Devilles have a lower AC supply voltage to that circuit.

I like most everything about Justins website (yes, gone now), but he did erroneously repeat the nonsense about changing the resistor values.

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe took another dive today
Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:37 am
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strayedstrater wrote:
Oh, went back and read previous threads.

https://forums.fender.com/viewtopic.php ... 2&start=15

Amp went in for repair. Tech said he went through it and preemptively fixed all the common problems. Including reflowing all solder joints. Gave 1 year warranty.

The cermets are the most common problem with the HRD I & II. Not super impressed that the problem first appeared after he preemptively fixed it.


Here is the amp tech's response to me below, after I e-mailed him that the problem existed. I knew he would be out of town but I sent the e-mail to his office e-mail address for when he gets back.

"Hi Dave,

Yes that problem is very common, has to do with the low voltage power supply. I already rebuilt that supply, so I must have damaged a trace or something like that. It is a quick fix, but does involve lifting the board. If you'd like to drop it off at my house Friday evening, I can probably fix it Saturday and then bring it back to surprise with me.

Sorry for the issue - if you weren't experiencing it before then it is almost certainly my fault. I rebuilt that LV supply to preemptively solve that issue so it is strange that it's acting up now. I will take care of it though.

I am in the mountains with spotty service, hopefully this email goes through.

All the best,

Lowell"

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe took another dive today
Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:48 am
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Sounds like a guy with integrity who stands by his service.

I apologize for casting aspersions earlier. Stuff happens even to good techs sometimes.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe took another dive today
Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:58 pm
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strayedstrater wrote:
Sounds like a guy with integrity who stands by his service.

I apologize for casting aspersions earlier. Stuff happens even to good techs sometimes.

No need to apologize, I have confidence in this guy, but no previous experience with him. We shall see. I hope he can get it right this time as this amp is my all time favorite tone (Clean Channel, I effect it with overdrive pedals and digital reverb), and I have had 30 amps over the years from Mesa Boogies to Peavey's, lots of classic Fenders, and other nameless wonders.

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