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What tube would you pick?
Poll ended at Fri May 05, 2017 5:36 am
Groove Tubes 50%  50%  [ 3 ]
JJ 50%  50%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 6
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Post subject: What would you choose? Why?
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:36 am
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I am going to replace all of the tubes in my FHRD Limited Edition Tweed amp. It came with Groove Tubes but I have been reading about the different brands and it seems that there are minor differences between the different options available. The price difference between these two brands is not an issue. However, i am wondering what people here think about these two brands?

Feel free to leave a comment, but please vote if you visit.


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Post subject: Re: What would you choose? Why?
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:41 am
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Groove Tube is not a tube brand most of the time it is Sovtek or JJ's rebrand.

I use JJ's on most of my amps, I have many.


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Post subject: Re: What would you choose? Why?
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:11 pm
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The GTs with the dash S are Slovakian JJ tubes. Not all JJ tubes are created equal.
The GT-S JJ preamp tubes are mising the nickel plating the JJ factory sports. Are they missing the gold plated grid wires? I don't know, but I'm sure they are different.
There are JJs made for Marshall that have no noise-reducing carbon coatings on the plates.
Plainly, they are cutting corners when it comes to tube quality. Many companies do the same. They take a nice amp and fill it with cheap tubes and speaker.
The JJ gold pin tubes have a low noise rating that pushes their clean tone. And the price.
The Telefunken Black Diamond tubes are made by JJ They are even spendier.
All the JJs sound clean and tight with the exception of the ECC803. These I find to be microphonic except in the V3 phase inverter.
These tubes will introduce you to the difference tubes can make. If I had any other part that can improve tone like good tubes, you can be sure I would put it in. But there is no replacement for good tubes. You pay for what you get.
Rather than look for a bunch of regular JJs, get some gold pin versions. Or find one good old Telefunken and put it in V1. It may cost $100, but it sounds like a million. A $60 Amperex Bugle Boy is a good choice too.
.


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Post subject: Re: What would you choose? Why?
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:13 pm
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GT uses almost all makes of tubes, including Russian, Chinese, Slovakian, and some exclusives. The main reason that I prefer GT is that the tubes used are tested and graded consistantly, and I have had excellent results. In particular, the Russian tubes from the Reflector factory are the best made modern tubes, and with the GT branded ones, it is more likely you'll get the best ones.

Using other tubes means different testing and grading methods, depending on the vendor, so you have to be more tube savvy to get what you want, and the consistancy is not there.

I don't believe that JJ only gives inferior tubes to GT, while selling better tubes to everyone else. :roll:

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Post subject: Re: What would you choose? Why?
Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 2:06 am
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TimsAudio wrote:
The GTs with the dash S are Slovakian JJ tubes. Not all JJ tubes are created equal.
The GT-S JJ preamp tubes are mising the nickel plating the JJ factory sports. Are they missing the gold plated grid wires? I don't know, but I'm sure they are different.
There are JJs made for Marshall that have no noise-reducing carbon coatings on the plates.
Plainly, they are cutting corners when it comes to tube quality. Many companies do the same. They take a nice amp and fill it with cheap tubes and speaker.
The JJ gold pin tubes have a low noise rating that pushes their clean tone. And the price.
The Telefunken Black Diamond tubes are made by JJ They are even spendier.
All the JJs sound clean and tight with the exception of the ECC803. These I find to be microphonic except in the V3 phase inverter.
These tubes will introduce you to the difference tubes can make. If I had any other part that can improve tone like good tubes, you can be sure I would put it in. But there is no replacement for good tubes. You pay for what you get.
Rather than look for a bunch of regular JJs, get some gold pin versions. Or find one good old Telefunken and put it in V1. It may cost $100, but it sounds like a million. A $60 Amperex Bugle Boy is a good choice too.
.


TimAudio ; alway good advices !

Not all JJ tubes are created equal.
What a headache :(


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Post subject: Re: What would you choose? Why?
Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:35 am
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Now, you know the factories spec their own speakers and potentiometers. It's not surprising they spec tubes as well.
If any electronics company engineer can figure how to save a dime of production costs, he gets a big ;"AttaBoy". Its harder to shave parts than labor.

The JJ tubes virtues are largely in its design which goes back to the 1950s.
When you pull a tube and look at it, it doesn't look like much, But its like looking under the hood of a car when its turned off. Fire it up and it vibrates as much as an engine. They both run at dynamic capacity for their design. If you run a tube amp on dummy loads, you can hear the tubes singing with the music.
The electrostatic forces between the plate and cathode bend the plate material inward. As plate current flows, the plate relaxes. So the plate vibrates with the music
Eventually, the plate or the cathode comes loose and the tube goes microphonic.
So mechanical reinforcements are used in good tubes. A little finger of mica insulator is pressed against the top of the cathode tube on the better tubes.
Most tubes use a frame box for the plate. As the box is stressed by the electrostatic forces, it makes its own sound. We call that tubiness. You can hear it plainly at 2KHz.
The JJ construction does not use the cathode finger or the box plate. The two halves of the plate are mounted separately in the mica disc. There is no resonant box, so they are very clean with no tubiness.
The dimple in the center of the individual plates stiffens the construction mechanically. It also puts the plate much closer to the cathode for better electron collection. More signal = less noise.
The coatings on the JJs are different between the red and gold label. The gold label appears a little lighter. It also seems to peel away in the tight radius sections. Perhaps a little more brittle?
But performance-wise, all JJ versions sound clean with few microphonics. The expensive ones are low noise as well.


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Post subject: Re: What would you choose? Why?
Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:06 am
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TimsAudio wrote:
Now, you know the factories spec their own speakers and potentiometers. It's not surprising they spec tubes as well.
If any electronics company engineer can figure how to save a dime of production costs, he gets a big ;"AttaBoy". Its harder to shave parts than labor.

The JJ tubes virtues are largely in its design which goes back to the 1950s.
When you pull a tube and look at it, it doesn't look like much, But its like looking under the hood of a car when its turned off. Fire it up and it vibrates as much as an engine. They both run at dynamic capacity for their design. If you run a tube amp on dummy loads, you can hear the tubes singing with the music.
The electrostatic forces between the plate and cathode bend the plate material inward. As plate current flows, the plate relaxes. So the plate vibrates with the music
Eventually, the plate or the cathode comes loose and the tube goes microphonic.
So mechanical reinforcements are used in good tubes. A little finger of mica insulator is pressed against the top of the cathode tube on the better tubes.
Most tubes use a frame box for the plate. As the box is stressed by the electrostatic forces, it makes its own sound. We call that tubiness. You can hear it plainly at 2KHz.
The JJ construction does not use the cathode finger or the box plate. The two halves of the plate are mounted separately in the mica disc. There is no resonant box, so they are very clean with no tubiness.
The dimple in the center of the individual plates stiffens the construction mechanically. It also puts the plate much closer to the cathode for better electron collection. More signal = less noise.
The coatings on the JJs are different between the red and gold label. The gold label appears a little lighter. It also seems to peel away in the tight radius sections. Perhaps a little more brittle?
But performance-wise, all JJ versions sound clean with few microphonics. The expensive ones are low noise as well.


Very good to know , thank's


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Post subject: Re: What would you choose? Why?
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 4:27 pm
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I use JJ's from Eurotubes https://www.eurotubes.com/store/pc/home.asp I have absolutely no business interest with them. I simply call them up and tell them what sound I want, and they ship me the tubes for that preference. I never shop around, and they nail it every time.

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Post subject: Re: What would you choose? Why?
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:22 pm
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I have used GT's in the past with pretty good luck/performance for both power and preamp tubes. Really good info here on this one!

Not to poach the OP's post, but I would like to know what Shimmy and Timsaudio think about the TAD's? I have used both their 6V6's and 6L6 short bottles and I really think the the 6L6's sound pretty close to GE's. They have been reliable so far too. Thoughts?

T2

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Post subject: Re: What would you choose? Why?
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:45 pm
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I have a couple of sets of the TAD 6L6GC, and the 6L6WGC, but have yet to try them (billed as similar to RCA blackplate and GE respectively). They do look like the tubes they are supposed to replicate.

I have tried the TAD 7025WA and really like them. I use them in a few of my amps, and they seem to be most excellent in the V2 position (first tube in the Vibrato channel) of the DR, head and combo. I also have some TAD ECC 83 that I have tried, but haven't found any spot where they really shine, although they sound fine.

Based on what I've read and my experience with TAD preamp tubes, I expect that their output tubes will be excellent as well.

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Post subject: Re: What would you choose? Why?
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 6:10 pm
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Thanks Shimmy! I have a supply of those TAD 7025WA preamp tubes too, and haven't used them in an amp yet, as I had a pretty good stash of NOS preamp tubes. I have been using the NOS' as I have done refurbs, but now I might swap a couple in and see how much if any sonic difference based on your recommendation. If they perform as good as the Power tubes so far, these maybe a good relatively cheap alternative to hunting for good NOS!

Thanks.

T2

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Post subject: Re: What would you choose? Why?
Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 11:26 am
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I have only used older vintage 6l6, but would like to hear what members are saying about the new manufactured ones as I could be interested in a cheaper alternative myself, vintage ( slightly used or NOS) are quite a bit more money, I have been looking at the new Telefunken Black Diamond 6l6 under $40 per, I have not bought or used them just doing research, and I am going to follow this post to see what others think or experience
mud


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Post subject: Re: What would you choose? Why?
Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 2:48 pm
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mud wrote:
I have only used older vintage 6l6, but would like to hear what members are saying about the new manufactured ones as I could be interested in a cheaper alternative myself, vintage ( slightly used or NOS) are quite a bit more money, I have been looking at the new Telefunken Black Diamond 6l6 under $40 per, I have not bought or used them just doing research, and I am going to follow this post to see what others think or experience
mud


I've really had pretty good luck with the Electro-Harmonix 6L6EX. I've had a pair in a '68 Bandmaster for six years now and they're still going strong. Throughout this period the idle bias has remained rock steady at 33.5 mA and they sound great.

Arjay

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