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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:59 pm
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Hi Mark,
here is one of the Power Point slides I knocked up to help me better understand my current routing when I am feeding midi CV to the preAmps and FX. I have shown which devices require power as well. It helps to outline how many cables are required, too. Obviously your set up would be less complicated :-)
FSM is a PreSonus Fire Studio Mobile.
2101 is Digitech GSP 2101 preamp and multiFX.
Wham is a Digitech Whammy Pedal.

The thing I LOVE about the Digitech GSP2101 footcontroller (exactly the same as a Control One footcontroller) is that is has an 18 character display. The Behringer FC1010 and many other footcontrollers only have a few numbers, which isn't enough info for me.

Note that this diagram does not show a bidirectional midi connection to computer, nor is a bidirectional midi connection required for this scenario to function. Also, the footcontroller is plugged into the powered 5 pin 5 wired DIN and changes programs/presets on both CT and 2101 simultaneously. The UC33 midicontroller and computer software send midi cc messages to both the 2101 and CT simulteneously with 2101 as a midi merge device (2101 has midi merge functionality). All midi merge means is that the messages from multiple midi streams will pass through the merge device. There are 127 cc channels (I think) so as long as the same cc numbers aren't used on more than one device, the messages go to cc numbers which have been programmed.

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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:00 am
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ok, so I have just done a couple little investigations regarding my posted set up diagram.

In order to use a midi footcontroller and midi controller simultaneously, a midi merge device is required.

I had previously assumed the CT midi format 5 pin DIN socket labelled "FOOT SWITCH" (DD in the CT manual) on the back of the CT is a powered connection & I am incorrect. The manual says that FOOT SWITCH connection is not midi; it is analog. I will edit my previous post saying otherwise.

Also, the Digitech GSP2101 FC (also known as Control One) will not work with the Cyber Twin AFAIAA; I am not going to try to connect the GSP2101 FC to the CT midi in, either. The GSP2101 FC warns against it as possibly damaging the midi device: in this case, the CT. I hope no one was mislead, sorry about that.


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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:39 am
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Hey Mark,
Just to continue our conversation a little further: As I said in my last post earlier today, I can't get my Digitech GSP 2101 FC midi footcontroller to work with the Cyber Twin (or likely any other midi device, for that matter, that isn't a 20 yr old Digitech product).

So, I went looking online for the midi connections on Fender Cyber Foot and the Behringer FCB1010. The CyberFoot has only a single midi out, but your FCB1010 should have mid in and midi out/thru (it does on the pictures I saw online). That means it may be possible to connect a midi controller into the Behringer FCB1010 and then to the Cyber Twin :-) I should think it is very likely the Behringer FCB1010 will pass midi messages because Behringer is labelled the port OUT/THRU. One thing I know for sure, the FCB1010 requires a separate power supply. If you want to power the FCB1010 via a single cable, you would have to carry out the slightly complicated procedure yourself :roll: There is a youtube video explaining how to do this operation.



Yeah, that's a little too much for me too :shock:

My UC33 midi controller specifically states that the UC33 is not a midi thru capable device even though it does have midi in and out sockets. For my purposes in the rig I have in the diagram (and similar rigs; ie without computer), the UC33 suits me perfectly :-)

That also means I will need to consider getting a footcontroller for use with the Cyber Twin if I want to use CT without the GSP 2101. I have been watching other CTs for sale online and have been interested in getting a 2nd Cyber Twin & CyberFoot. I am happy to get a midi merge device, though, too as I can find many applications for a midi merge box.

Also, the cool thing about teaching yourself midi it that you don't need to make any music if you only have an hour or 30 min. Set up your gear, connect the midi, get the manuals out see if you can get devices talking to each other. It can be frustrating at times, but rewarding when find success and grow your knowledge.

anyhow, have fun!

_todd


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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:34 am
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mark engraves wrote:
As for a pedal controller - my wife got me a Behringer FCB1010 MIDI controller many years ago, and it might work for remote mapping and had I believe two pedal (wah/volume) and 12 preset function buttons, all of which can be mapped to do whatever you program them to do. The weird thing was Fender's "zero" was Behringer's "1".


Hey, Mark,
I have been hitting my head on the desk over this number mis-match for a while. I kept trying to figure this out upstream of the CT on my Digitech gear. Fender did accommodate for this, though.

To adjust program/preset numbers to match your pedal use the MIDI Preset Mapping in the CT utility menu:
press UTILITY button 8 times> Display reads:
MIDI#: 0 Preset: P00
Map arrowdn arrowdn

If you want your pedal display number to match the program number on the CT, set the P00 to one number higher.

So, say you want 038 on your FCB1010 footcontroller to load P38 on CT you need to set MIDI Preset Mapping on the CT to:
MIDI#: 37 Preset: P38
Map arrowdn arrowdn

These settings are global, so you don't have to "save" them to presets; set them and turn the amp on and off the MIDI Preset Mapping is saved.

You will have to do this for all of the Presets if you want them to match your controller number. It is easy, but can be time consuming. I just did this for my CT in about 20 min.

I'll show what I did:

MIDI#: 0 Preset: P01
Map arrowdn arrowdn

MIDI#: 1 Preset: P02
MIDI#: 2 Preset: P03
MIDI#: 3 Preset: P04
MIDI#: 4 Preset: P05
repeat this +1 formula until:
MIDI#: 83 Preset: P84
Then I chose to:
MIDI#: 84 Preset: P00
MIDI#: 85 Preset: A00
MIDI#: 86 Preset: A01
MIDI#: 87 Preset: A02
MIDI#: 88 Preset: A03
MIDI#: 89 Preset: A04
through to
MIDI#: 119 Preset: A34

then you have 7 more MIDI# available.

That way your pedal numbers match cyber twin presets through P84 :-)

I love the YOUR AMP COLLECTION bank A00-A34. It is a lot of scrolling on FX VAL 2 knob mapping these A presets.

I doubt I will use this mapping in future because I have the GS 2101 to map as well and the presets need to be sculpted to work well together.

I got Cyber Commmander software running as well today, but the version I have is for a CT SE and doesn't work with the First edition Cyber Twin I have :-( I have toured the software; it would be helpful, for sure. It is nice to see all available parameters at a glance. It lead me to re-read the entire CT manual again today and I learned something very helpful I hadn't understood before (important difference between RAMP and STEP).


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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:55 pm
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I just created an account here because of this thread!!

@ctreitzell - you've just inspired me to dive back into my Cyber-Twin. It seems that CT users are few and far between. I've had it since the original release (early 2000s?, $$$$), but I've refused to part with it over a sense of nostalgia. I'm getting back into music production, but with more synth/electronic influence (just ordered an Elektron Digitakt...)

My original intention was to replace a pedalboard and just swap amps/presets, so I never really dug too deep into the CT configuration. It worked fine, but I'm now much more interested in exploring the depth of the amp.

On a related note, do you have any experience replacing your tubes? I think the CT-SE had easily accessible tubes, but I don't think that's the case for the original model. I haven't noticed any microphonics, but I haven't turned it on in a while, so I want to be prepared for that eventuality...

Also, I see that you mentioned being somewhere in between guitar and synths, so I'm interested in hearing any music you might have recorded.

Cheers!


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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:32 pm
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g2x222 wrote:
I just created an account here because of this thread!!

@ctreitzell - you've just inspired me to dive back into my Cyber-Twin. It seems that CT users are few and far between. I've had it since the original release (early 2000s?, $$$$), but I've refused to part with it over a sense of nostalgia. I'm getting back into music production, but with more synth/electronic influence (just ordered an Elektron Digitakt...)

My original intention was to replace a pedalboard and just swap amps/presets, so I never really dug too deep into the CT configuration. It worked fine, but I'm now much more interested in exploring the depth of the amp.

On a related note, do you have any experience replacing your tubes? I think the CT-SE had easily accessible tubes, but I don't think that's the case for the original model. I haven't noticed any microphonics, but I haven't turned it on in a while, so I want to be prepared for that eventuality...

Also, I see that you mentioned being somewhere in between guitar and synths, so I'm interested in hearing any music you might have recorded.

Cheers!


Hey G2,
glad to hear you were inspired by my endless rantations.

CT can be a LOT of fun used as I have described. I am busy on a huge project (that is, sadly, not musical).

When this 2yr project is tied up, I will be diving deep into music.

You can hear some of my playing live 20 years ago on my soundcloud page(s). As it stands, I have not yet recorded any of my cyber twin set up as described from Jun2017 until now.

I have not yet replaced my original tubes in my first gen CT. I understand it is a pain to drop that first gen chassis. You should learn how to safely drain the caps before attemping to drop that chassis. I may well do change my tubes in future. I do plan on buying a couple more CTs...first, gotta finish this project.

Synths vrs guitar? I have been sending control voltage from computer with Propellerhead Reason’ External Midi Instrument to parameters simultaneously to both my Digitech GSP2101 and CT. I haven’t actually programmed anything “musical”, yet...just getting it to work. Synth isn’t really a part of it :-)

Yeah, man, get yer head down into midi-land and see what you can acheive...I look forward to hearing.

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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:00 am
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This maybe ??? Looks to be some kind of Cyber Twin software....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtAjV9YCbiA

http://hamanako-kankou.uzusionet.com/Cy ... ditor.html


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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:42 am
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Welll, it looks like my instructions for backing up Cyber Twin programs and other SysEx might be a bit lacking. I will attempt to rectify that here.

I have started programming my multi amp set up more and wanted to back up my work. This old school midi SYSEX dumping stuff can be tricky. The Cyber Twin manual is really not very clear regarding SYSEX.

I have gotten my backing up to computer and downloading back to Digitech GSP2101 external rack unit down now...it took some trial and error and corrupting my 2101 once or twice to learn how to not make mistakes. If you want to have a look at the Midi-Ox "HowTo" I wrote up for 2101, it is here:
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index ... /27095407/

Cyber Twin is a slightly different story:
To back up Cyber Twin programs to computer and then to successfully download those back ups back to Cyber Twin, there are a few things to look out for.

1) the full SYSEX messages that the Cyber Twin dumps to computer need to remain intact. Refer to the Cyber twin manual:
Appendix 3
System Exclusive Messages
If you don't know how to do this already and somewhat read the Hex code, there is a lot of missing info that Fender did not provide in the manual!
When you dump SYSEX to MIDI-OX, some characters will be different colors.
Those different colored characters are typically start and end of message indicators.
Image
The CyberTwin backups require the 3 data strings explained on Appendix 3 in the manual. It doesn't say that in the manual, but it should!
Those 3 data strings are Header, Data Packet and End of Message.
Image
Image
Image

I bring this up because I had some problems with extra data strings when performing SYSEX dumps/backups with my GSP2101. I noticed similar "extra" messages in the CyberTwin SYSEX, and deleted those extra messages as I incorrectly assumed those extra data strings were button pushes on the Cyber Twin front panel. Deleting those Header and End of Message strings was a mistake, the Cyber Twin needs those commands or the Cyber Twin will hang on a loading screen. (Power off the Cyber Twin to clear the hang. I didn't lose any info when I did it.)
Image
If this message pops up and disappears quickly, the SYSEX dump has been done correctly...if this messages stays lit for a long, long time....something is wrong with your hexidecimal code.

2) Before I started dumping SYSEX programs one at a time to and from computer, I incorrectly assumed the program number was burned into the SYSEX hex code and if I wanted to store the program on a different Players Lounge program number, I would have to modify the hex before downloading back to the Cyber Twin. The manual certainly doesn't say anything about this. Well, it should have! Well, Fender was clever here, but you need to do these dumps a couple of times to get it right. When a SYSEX Cyber twin single program is sent to the Cyber Twin, a players lounge destination can be chosen with the big encoder knob :-)

There is a little catch, though: when sending SYSEX programs to Cyber Twin, you don't really see which .sys program was sent until you press "SAVE" on the CyberTwin...so make sure you don't overwrite a precious (not yet backed up) program that might be in that destination.

Here are the steps to upload your single program SYSEX dumps to computer:
In MIDI_OX ScratchPad:
Image

Then a little dialog box should appear titled SysEx Receive:
Image

In Cyber Twin UTILITY menu...something like 11 presses :-)
Image

then the SYSEX dump travels via MIDI to computer with this message (notice the MIDI light is on. I mistakenly thought this CyberTwin front panel MIDI light would stay illuminated whenever a MIDI connection is present...not so, this MIDI light only stays illuminated when MIDI messages are happening in Real Time. I am under the impression this MIDI light remains always illuminated when using General CyberSystems Cyber Commander):
Image

Back to MIDI_OX Scratch Pad (this screen shot is a Digitech 2101 program; CyberTwin programs are all 68 bytes in my experience):
Image

Save the .sys file (needs to be manually named; Hexidecimal Code in the Display Window does not need to be highlighted):
Image

There, program is backed up to computer :-)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To download the SYSEX programs from computer to CyberTwin:
Very easy, in MIDI-OX Scratch Pad:
File> Send Sysex File...

Then at Cyber Twin (remember this one? This message should be gone pretty quick
(hard to photo (I had to video it)) If this message stays up for a long, long time....something is wrong with your SYSEX
Also, notice they didn't use Players Lounge, what the ... :? :
Image

When the program has been received by Cyber Twin, the user needs to decide in which Players Lounge location to save the SYSEX program just sent. Here, the displayed program name is currently saved to the location the Cyber Twin was on when the SYSEX program was sent. For example, If you don't want to save over the program at P02, then choose another destination.
Image

after turning the big knob encoder to another destination, in this case P20> press SAVE on Cyber Twin front panel and the sent program name should overwrite:
Image

anyway, just trying to be more clear and help if someone needs it :-) I did!


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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:43 am
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I got SysEx commands working today sending to both Cyber Twins. Pretty much alleviates the need for Cyber Commander

been diving into remote controlling Cyber Twins and Digitech GSP2101.
I see, now, why General Cyber Systems folded..

I am currently using TouchOSC ipad app to control all three devices (2101, CT FE and CT SE).
Midi CCs are just the tip of the iceberg. TouchOSC supports SYSEX messaging. You can set up a couple of TouchOSC pages to control a huge range of CT functions using the 18-24 midi CCs and Sysex.

With Sysex you can change tone stack, tone stack location, Drive Circuitry, Effects Types, Reverb Type, Reverb Timbre, Speaker Phase, Compressor, Noise Gate all without touching a dial or a button on the Cyber Twin. You'll have to educate yerself on some hex code, but the recipe is in the CT manual and it isn't too hard once do a few.

So there isn't a huge need for Cyber Commander. That said, you'll require an ipad (or capable tablet) and either need a computer with audio/ midi interface or an ipad/ tablet midi interface (Tascam one looks pretty cool and not too expensive).

Here are some of my layouts so far, I gonna add all the SYSEX possibilities soon, too :-)
Image

Image

Image


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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:34 am
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On Monday I continued with TouchOSC layout
it works great. I haven't catered to SE specific FX yet; I currently program bot CTFE & SE like a FE where both CTs have identical settings. I plan to next work on sending separate SysEx messages to each device. I am guessing not sending SE specific SysEx is throwing an error that requires me to power cycle (turn off and on) the CTs to reset. They seem to run fine during the same session after the SysEx error power cycle.

Now looking like:

pretty much every amp setting controllable with a single button press
Image

fx page:
Image

not perfect but is really wonderful to use


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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:53 pm
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I did some hours today hittin my head on the desk with SysEx.

I was working on sending different messages to each of my CyberTwins. After a lot of trial and error and rebooting freaked out CyberTwins (usually the slave) I have come to understand something that is not clear in the manual.

The short answer is I needed to set my SysEx Device ID to OMNI (as the manual has in bold) and then use the different Device IDs in the sysex message syntax and that works reliably. This isn't written in the manual, you'll have to figure that out for yourself. So far, I can find no reason for the ability to set the SysEx Device ID on the Cyber Twin. You'll also need to send a sysex handshake to both of the devices.

Also, be aware that, in my set up my CT FE is the master and my SE is the slave
CT FE midi in>midi thru connected to CT SE midi in. If you connect midi out from the master, the slave will exactly mirror the master, which isn't the scenario I want in my application.

for example sake:
CyberTwin FE
11H is Amp ID (set by factory)
23H is Device ID (set by user)

CyberTwin SE
12H is Amp ID (set by factory)
24H is Device ID (set by user)

I want to toggle (activate; not on/off) parameters from a remote control button (TouchOSC)
This is a 4 message string of data that works for my situation:
F0 7E 23 7F 01 F7 F0 08 23 11 05 05 00 7B F7 F0 7E 24 7F 01 F7 F0 08 24 12 05 05 07 7B F7

broken down:
CyberTwin FE is:
F0 7E 23 7F 01 F7 (FE specific Handshake)
F0 08 23 11 05 05 00 7B F7 (FE Data Packet for Reverb Timbre= None)

CyberTwin SE is:
F0 7E 24 7F 01 F7 (SE Handshake)
F0 08 24 12 05 05 07 7B F7 (SE Data Packet for Reverb Type= Blackface)

I hope that helps anyone else toying with the awesome power of SysEx :)


Last edited by ctreitzell on Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:52 pm
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wow, I hope you get a chance to actually play your guitar at some point :shock: :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:21 am
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ghost_of_strings wrote:
wow, I hope you get a chance to actually play your guitar at some point :shock: :lol:


Thanks for reading, GoS :-)
I would rather play guitar, too....and I have been
I am really looking forward to recording my live midi moves into a DAW and have the ability to retrace exactly what I did.

I am getting there, too.
My TouchOSC layout for both CT FE and SE is nearly finished.

I am working on building a VST with Ctrlr to control SysEx (and Midi) parameters from my DAW and to record those parameters into the DAW from live playing. Re-amping will become pretty cool!


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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:50 am
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Awesome!

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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:54 pm
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hmmmm, well, I have gotten derailed working outside on the ranch because the weather has been beautiful the past few weeks and I do enjoy chainsaw work.
weather is taking a turn for the worst tomorrow, tho....hurray

I am not so sure the VST is going to work as I had hoped...I hafta dive back into that...

I did experiment with Cyber2edit last week...it is essentially a no frills Cyber Commander for first edition CT and has no copy protection issues like Cyber Commander. There is no user manual, so be careful! Itis easy to reset your CT to factory, so back up first!

In my quest to find the sysex commands for the CT's front panel buttons, I may be misunderstanding how the SAVE function actually works...seems to be a SysEx message workaround employed by CT to SAVE a program, so the workings are probably right under my nose

I suppose I should finish my TouchOSC layout for SE before moving on to something else :-)


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