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Post subject: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:43 am
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Hi Everyone
Just got a cyber twin and have been searching for the Cyber Commander Editor, but having problems tracking it down. Does anyone know where i can get hold of a copy.
thanks in advance
Mike


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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:51 am
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Hi Mike,
I have recently dived into getting my Digitech GSP 2101 and Cyber Twin working in tandem via midi. I bring up the 2101 because it needed more backing up than my CT. Anyhow, I too came too late to the party to get Cyber Commander. I was bummed out about it at first, yet, now I don't think I need it.
I am successfully using Midi-Ox to dump individual SysEx programs/patches from the CT and to upload individual progs/patches. Same with the 2101. It is easy once you get srarted, albeit fairly manual.
You have to:
Connect CT to computer bi-directional midi connection (in and out of a computer);
Using Midi-Ox you need the SysEx View And Scratchpad window;
There are two windows in the Scratchpad: Display and Command.
To dump (receive) a patch/program:
Click Display>Send/Receive SysEx
Dialogue pop up on computer "Waiting for data"...
Computer is now waiting for the user to manually send the patch/program data from CT; so, in the CT select patch/prog you want
Press utility button>scroll to
"Press TAP key to MIDI dump preset C00 (number)"
***edit Sept 11 2018*** well, I wrote that wrongly: it is only possible to back up and download back to CyberTwin a Players Lounge program, so thata would only P00 type numbers...not C00...actually I am struggling to make this work on Windows 10 :-/ **end edit**
CT should display "sending..." (Something like that)

Back to computer
Dialogue box should now have an amount of data from the dump and the Midi Ox SysEx Display window now have hexidecimal info in it which is the contents of your dump.
Now you, crucially, need to save the hexidecimal string to a SysEx file format to a directory /file location on your computer:
Click Display Window>Save as...
Name the file and save.

To upload, use the Scratchpad Command window.
The steps are very similar to the dump steps.

I say all this because, I was getting stuck at the manual saving of my midi dumps.

Maybe you already know all of that and want more in depth control for programming your CT. I thought I did too, until I mapped continuous cobtrollers to my Evolution UC33 :-) which is awesome!

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Last edited by ctreitzell on Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:59 pm
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What the heck is a MIDI-OX? and what's a bidirectional midi cable and how do I get info to a laptop? I'd love to create and save settings in a usable format,, and cull out some of the unusable resets like "Calliope". Thanks ahead of time.

Maybe post a couple of photos of the setup? THX.


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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:04 am
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mark engraves wrote:
What the heck is a MIDI-OX? and what's a bidirectional midi cable and how do I get info to a laptop? I'd love to create and save settings in a usable format,, and cull out some of the unusable resets like "Calliope". Thanks ahead of time.

Maybe post a couple of photos of the setup? THX.


Mark,
I use a PreSonus Firestudio Mobile connected to my laptop via expresscard34 firewire400 card. The PreSonus FSM has it's own issues (chipset), but when properly set up, works fantastically. There are many ways to get midi in/out through a laptop and there are less expensive options than PreSonus.

Bi-Directional midi cable? Midi din connections on the majority of devices that support midi will have midi in port, midi out port and midi thru port. Also, very handy on devices like CT is the separate powered midi footcontroller input, essentially giving the user 2 midi inputs.

The reason you need a bi-directional midi connection for backing up or uploading CT sysex presets/programs/patches is because the computer needs to talk to the CT and the CT needs to talk to computer for managing sysex info. A usb cable can be considered a bi-directional midi cable, but CT is from an era before usb to guitar amp/fx devices and, as you know, it has no usb port. So, to get your CT talking to your laptop you need to connect CT midi out and in to your laptop. It requires at least 2 midi cables for a bi-directional midi connection:-)

I don't know if pics would help... Maybe a flowchart to see my signal chain... Which I have knocked up in power point, but it isn't on me right now.

Midi-Ox is a midi configuration and management software tool for windows which is freeware, google it and investigate it for yourself. It will allow you to manage sysex data (presets on your CT).

Feel free to ask me more stuff, I love talking about it and am happy to help :-)

_todd


Last edited by ctreitzell on Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:23 pm
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Walmart online sells a MIDI/USB adapter cheap, and Guitar Center had a $35 MIO USB/MIDI for what the clerk said would allow me to connect midi device to pc. As for the software MIDI-OX looks confusing, and I am a sort of computer geek. So I still wish there was a way to get a single package to up and down load settings and presets.

As for a pedal controller - my wife got me a Behringer FCB1010 MIDI controller many years ago, and it might work for remote mapping and had I believe two pedal (wah/volume) and 12 preset function buttons, all of which can be mapped to do whatever you program them to do. The weird thing was Fender's "zero" was Behringer's "1".


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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:18 am
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I found this:

http://cyber-commander-se.software.informer.com/download/

I don't own one so I didn't try the download link.
I don't know if it's dead or still alive.

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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:50 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
I found this:

http://cyber-commander-se.software.informer.com/download/

I don't own one so I didn't try the download link.
I don't know if it's dead or still alive.


I really don't think this for the Fender Cyber Twin first or second edition.


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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:03 pm
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I tried the link BMW suggested a while back; I found it to be a dead end. Thanks for that, though. IIRC, that "software" has potential malware.

Sounds like that iconnectivity mio stuff is buggy
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/1099704-iconnectivity-mio-10-opinions.html
If you aren't interested in audio in/out to computer, then Kenton makes great midi gear. There are so many options of audio cards. I bought PreSonus FireStudio Mobile because I read the drivers are fantastic, and they are! Getting the correct chipset in expresscard34 was the challenge.

Mark, I use a footcontroller AND midi controller at the same time, not one or the other. The midi controller gives you instant access to more parameters than the knobs on the amp allow! I put midi controller on a music stand next to me in the optimal amp throw: no walking back and forth to amp!

A midi controller, like the UC33 I use, allows you control over 18 parameters without going over to the amp and navigating into the CT controls. The midi controller is like a remote from which you can access 90% of ALL the CT parameters, not just one or two parameters with your footcontroller rocker pedals. No more walking over to the amp. Stand or sit in the amp throw and tweak. It is awesome. Like most folks, I use footcontroller to change patches and control one parameter. It is more like having a pedal board.

With the midi controller, want to change delay feedback amount? Turn the knob you mapped previously. Master Vol too quiet? Turn the knob you mapped. Want to adjust amp eqs? Turn those dials. On the amp itself you can change fx level, fx1 and fx2 only. With midi controller you can change fx level, fx bypass, fx1, fx2, fx3 and fx4 without having to go to the amp and navigate into CT! and waaay more other parameters from a place in your room where the amp sounds best. It is a whole new world. Yes it can be a pita to set up, but once you do, wow!

You don't need computer connection to get a midi controller working with CT. I found connecting CT and GSP 2101 to computer more difficult than connection the midi controller. That might be because the UC33 is tricky to work with.

Midi-Ox is cake once you teach yourself how to use it. It will allow you to back up your patches and load them and upload other user presets if you want to go that route. You can also remote control CT from Midi-Ox. You can live without Cyber Commander, Midi-Ox has enough functionality to at least let you manage sysex.

Personally, I have had no luck with usb and CT, even when trying to get my midi controller to talk to MidiOx over usb. There is a windows issue; iirc usb only uses midi channel 1 or something like that. You need to go old school midi 5 pin din and then it all works, at least that is my experience. :-)


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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:49 am
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ctreitzell:

Thanks for following this thread. I sure wish I understood half of what you were stating in the last comments. If and when I get into SysEx stuff, and Midi-Ox, I am sure your comments will be helpful. Since I don't gig at all anymore, the need is strickly to have more fun and control over the CT. There's so many presets that frankly, just suck, and it would be nice to completely re-arrange the ones I would use, and create new sounds and presets to be of my likings. Really "Calliope" or "B Movie", who is going to use those? Unless it's a starting point for modifications.

Right now I pretty much just want to play the amp and get more familiar with its capabilities (tough to do with kids, dog, and wife who all shriek "Turn it down".) Even on 2 master volume? Really? Oh well.

Perhaps if you could do a Youtube video and explain to me and perhaps other newbie MIDI users, how you setup, and utilize the tools you have, I could better understand. I am a visual learning person. Especially since Al Gore's invention of the Internet.


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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:58 pm
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Try contacting Fender directly.

consumerrelations@fender.com

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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:21 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Try contacting Fender directly.

consumerrelations@fender.com


Personally, I haven't tried contacting Fender directly. General Cybersystems' Cyber Commander is 3rd party software for a long discontinued Fender product. Whatever transpired to lead General Cybersystems to cease trading is not information that I, and others, have been able to find, so far as I know. I can make all kinds of assumptions as to what happened to Johnny's quest with Cyber Commander ;-) yet, I won't speculate here.

I assume Fender is only capable of providing customer support only on their proprietary products. Fender is clearly pushing their new Mustang amps over supporting discontinued ones. :-)


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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:58 am
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Mark,

I have been considering making a video with my current set up. I suppose I am somewhere between a guitar player and a synth geek :-) I am really more of a guitar player. My company, brandAnonymous, is a creative agency with a focus on making video. That said, I am not the person who wants to be in camera shots...I is the audio guy.

So far, I haven't found any good videos on YouTube showing a set up like I am using. I asked my missus to help me make a video on it...I will see what I can do.

I wonder what it is that you don't understand in my post so I can further help you.

Is it my listing of devices?
Terminology, like "amp throw"?
Hardware Formats like 5-pin DIN?
Software terms like sysex?

Anyhow, it sounds like you just need to buy 2 items:
1. Midi input to PC
2. Midi controller
Obviously you will need to buy midi cables. The midi controller, of course isn't required :-) but, you know how I feel about adding a midi controller. You just want to have fun playing through your CT? A midi controller will multiply the fun! Also, you might need power supplies for those devices.

As far as managing presets, you can do it now on your CT without buying anything. Do you have a CT manual?
Your Cyber Twin has 3 different types of presets:
A presets
C presets
P presets fender has called Players Lounge

A are the amp models/simulations and cannot be saved over.
C are the default presets and cannot be saved over.
A & C you can make changes to parameters while you are using it, but you cannot save those parameter changes to an A or C preset. The only presets you can save to are P.

So, you won't be able to "get rid of" Sick Colliape or B Movie in the C presets.

Only by modifying P / Players Lounge presets can you rid yourself of your unwanted presets.

As far a SysEx management, you need a midi to computer adaptor. Don't listen to the clerk in the store unless you really trust them. You just need to ask yourself whether or not you want audio in/out as well as midi in/out to your computer.

And, yes, if you follow the steps I have already written in this thread, you will succeed in backing up your Cyber Twin presets to computer. Personally, when I make my own custom presets, I do that on the Cyber Twin itself. If I had General Cybersystems' Cyber Commander, I might use that...but I don't. If you haven't made any custom presets in your Players Lounge, you have no need to back them up :-)

Part of the issue with midi is knowing what you want to do. Once you know what you want, then you can budget and source the gear that works for you.

When buying midi cables, you need to know your cable formats. Midi is typically a 5-pin DIN. If you have the CT 4 button footswitch, that cable is a typical 5 pin DIN. The midi sockets on the back panel of the CT are 5-pin DIN. Knowing how the midi sockets are wired is critical!!!

!!!**edit Oct 25 2017: I had previously incorrectly confused the back panel connections of the Digitech GSP 2101 with the back panel connections of the Fender Cyber Twin. so I have edited:**

BEGIN EDIT
"Look at the back panel of your CT and let the confusion begin. The midi in, midi out, midi thru sockets use 5-pin DIN with 3 wired pins, this is where you connect a midi device like a footcontroller and/or midi controller; these sockets are wired to 3 pins of the 5-pin DIN connector socket; there is no "mains" power wired to these sockets."

"In the CT manual, it explains the the midi format 5-pin DIN socket labelled "FOOT SWITCH" is not a midi connection at all; it is analog wiring only to be connected to the Cyber Twin specific 4 button foot switch. Frankly, this CT 4 button FOOT SWITCH wiring on the CT just adds to the confusion as it is atypical IME."

"The footcontroller midi connection on the Digitech GSP 2101 PreAmp and FX unit and the GSP2101 footcontroller itself, on the other hand, has a warning because it is a 5-pin DIN with all 5 pins wired TO THE FEMALE SOCKET WITH (SOME FORM OF) MAINS POWER. A 5-pin 5 wired DIN connection can be wired to power a midi device, for example: a footcontroller. With power coming through the midi cable, you don't require a separate wall wart and another power extension cable, so it is less cables on the floor. The midi socket supplies the power and you use a typical 5-pin DIN midi cable. If you were to plug that 5 pin DIN 5 wired cable into a midi device that is not designed to handle the mains power from the 5-pin DIN 5 wried socket, said device could be permanently damaged. I used to think you need a special cable, but it depends upon how the socket is wired. You need to understand the socket wiring. If there is no warning, You could assume the socket is wired to 3 pins with no power :-)
!!!END EDIT Oct 25 2017!!!


I was confused about that for many years. I hope that starts to make some sense.

I will have a look for audio interfaces for you. I bet you can get an old mbox2 for peanuts off of ebay and that should work to get you started.

_todd


Last edited by ctreitzell on Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:53 am
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ctreitzell:

As I stated before I do have the Behringer Foot Control Board, and I have used it mainly to get to the different presets quicker. The whole MIDI thing is new to me, so I am inexperienced and a bit overwhelmed by the processes. If I had a video to follow, I am sure I could make more sense of it all.

Thanks for investigating making a video. I am sure the Cyber Twin owners and users would appreciate your efforts, and make you a Youtube star. The main reason I purchased the CT way back in 2000 was the amount of effects it had onboard. I have a real disdain for pedals and all of the cords and paraphernalia that they require. I like the variety of sounds, but dislike the clutter. The CT with Behringer seemed like a tidy solution, if I ever gigged again; but also the ease of setup at home, where space is limited, and time is virtually non-existent.

If a PC can be linked into the chain with the CT and the Behringer, so that a visual aspect is readily available, that would be the cat's meow. (Showing my age, I know.)

I was at the local GC last night and tried out a small Mustang, and was confused and unimpressed. It also has an encoder in the selector, with a push button in the center to make things worse. I'll stay with what I have, and also venture back to my Vacuum Tube Roots (someday I'll build the Vibroverb that got away). Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:16 am
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Hey mark,
yeah, space is required. Fender Twin amp throw is about 5-8 paces in front of it; any closer and it don't sound right.

Clutter is hard fix with all the cables required.

I, too, always thought the CT had more FX than it actually does. It essentially does one effect at a time plus reverb. yes there are a couple dual fx available, but the duals aren't better than the single FX. I think the Tape Delay on the CT is awesome. My Digitech GSP 2101 has a lot more FX possible at one time and it is 10 years older! I've said it before and I'll say again: more than one amp at a time sounds better than one amp (equally true at lower volumes); So I use stereo GSP 2101 at the same time as CT. I usually feed the wet signal from Digitech Whammy into the CT for harmonizing as the 2101 has loads of harmonizers.

Time: this is also required to get to the bottom of the midi game. That's why a mid controller is so great: it's more like having a bunch of pedals on the floor, but in a very compact area. With my setup I have 18 CT parameters and 10 GSP 2101 parameters mapped to my midi controller, so there is a lot of control. Like I said before, what happens is, you spend less time changing patches and more time diving into tweaking parameters with a setup like this.

I don't wanna be a YT star, I'd just like to have seen how a set up like mine is now before I got started :-)

Anyhow, I just had a look at ebay and ou have sooooo many options. That said, anything you add will add clutter.

To get an old mbox2 you are probably looking at btwn $35-$70. Those drivers are not fantastic, but it does work. You the mbox2 mini doesn't have midi i/o.

You can get a PreSonus Audio USB for between $70-100. The drivers are much better imo.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=mbox2&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xpresonus+audiobox+usb.TRS0&_nkw=presonus+audiobox+usb&_sacat=0

Midi Controller is a heckuva lot harder to come by! because the new ones are all USB and you have to spend a premium to get 5 pin DIN. Here is what I use, this one is pretty beaten up, tho!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Evolution-U-control-UC-33e-Surface-Controller/182797099629?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D41376%26meid%3D04a8a997c5c74792b8c2663b14b598f6%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D202077586391&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042

This would do; but it only has 17 knobs and faders & piano keys you may not need. I do know these are tiny. I don't know how trustworthy the knobs and faders are. My UC33 is pretty good for that.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-M-Audio-Oxygen-49-USB-MIDI-Controller-TESTED/202078112579?epid=0&hash=item2f0ccb4b43:g:CeAAAOSwKE9Z3RRh

Anyhow, I had a look like I said I would. If you want to go midi controller you might need another converter box to convert USB to 5pin DIN.

You might be able to use this Akai usb midi controller:
http://www.akaipro.com/products/recording/midimix
connected to this (Kenton is good gear!):
http://www.kentonuk.com/products/items/utilities/usb-host.shtml
and that combo MIGHT get you both talking to CT with or without PC :-)


If you are thinking to get just midi i/o to PC I would suggest something like maudio midiman 2x2. Thing is, for $20 more you can get audio i/o as well :-)

Good Luck, man, thanks for talking with me about it; it's nice to know I am not alone :-)


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Post subject: Re: Cyber Twin Editor Cyber commander
Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:58 am
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'ppreciate the feedback (I once had a band that was the warm up for the Nuge). I'll contemplate what I am going to do with the MIDI thing, but for now I am just tossing ideas around to get re-familiarized with the CT amp. I've got to drag the Behringer out of the closet and try to see what I can do with it. If I remember correctly, I had one of the volume pedals set at a parameter sweep, and the other was a wah or volume, depending on the FX I was running.

Got to go for now, but keep me posted on the video, if and when you make one - just kidding about YT Star. :-)


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