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Post subject: Tame the Loudness
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:40 am
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Hey all. Could use your advice in modifying volume. If I'm wrong in any assumptions, please let me know. I have a Bandmaster VM (40 watt) head running through a closed back Fender 4x12 with 100 Celestians. Sounds great to my ear (setting aside the digital stuff which I could do without). But playing mostly home it's way too loud. Volume at 1.5 or 2 is about max, and I must be missing a lot of potential tone if the tubes never really get pushed at all. I play mostly clean, but like having the option to crunch it up time to time - but not metal. So, what to do? Here's my questions/thoughts:

1) get attenuator - Marshall Power Brake, Bad Cat Unleash, other - but I've read that Fenders don't attenuate well and do you really need to attenuate if you're mostly clean anyway? Plus, I could buy half another amp for the cost of such boxes?

2) switch out the Bandmaster for a Super-sonic 22 head - get the cleans, lose the digital verb, etc. The Bandmaster crunch sounds a little better to me than the more modern SS distortion, but figure I'll be able to dial-up something similar eventually if I owned one? But does dropping down watts really make a difference in loudness. If I'm on 2 at 40 watts, will I be able to turn up to 4/5 on the 22 watt platform?

3) switch out the 4x12 cab for a 2x12 - will that modify (down) the volume a little/at all?

4) Try Bluesbreaker - that appears to be more of a Marshall-ish approach and not what I'm looking for.

5) Go DRRI or Blues Jr? Trying not to give up clean/crunch foot-switching.

OK, that's enough of me going on. I'm sure you see what I'm getting at. Would really appreciate anyone's thoughts/recommendations/responses.

Have a great day!

Stu


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Post subject: Re: Tame the Loudness
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:12 am
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Get a smaller amp, preferably one with 10 watts or less.

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Post subject: Re: Tame the Loudness
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:42 am
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I think the Super Sonic 22 will be too loud for you. IME with the 1x12 combo it starts to break up around 4-5 on the clean channel but at that point it is very loud. Really, 1 or 2 is already quite loud. The volume of the gain channel is more controllable but also gets best tone when opened up. Great sounding amp though.


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Post subject: Re: Tame the Loudness
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:30 am
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Post subject: Re: Tame the Loudness
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:15 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Get a smaller amp, preferably one with 10 watts or less.

Arjay


Have to agree here, I was using a SFSR 40 watt all the time, volume 1.5 to 2 was far too loud for the bedroom. I found a BFVC 5watt, so much better on my ears and family, even cranked with my guitars on 10 ( it can get loud and growly ) maybe as much DB as the SFSR on 3, but the the SFSR on 3 does not break up like the VC on 10
mud


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Post subject: Re: Tame the Loudness
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:47 pm
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mud wrote:
I found a BFVC 5watt, so much better on my ears and family...


The kids turn their noses up at these vintage gems because they're not bright and shiny, there's no blinking lights, no Bluetooth hookup, no way to program it with FUSE software, no reverb, they smell weird, yadda yadda yadda.

But you and I know better.

:wink:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Tame the Loudness
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:47 pm
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Thanks for the inputs folks. Blues Jr., Bluesbreaker, Super Champ, Bugera V22, Vox AC10/15 there's a lot out there and each has appealing aspects. But gotta say I stumbled on Fender Custom Deluxe 12-watt today; might make most sense to just sell-off gear I'm not using and invest in one of those babies. I can always go back to using pedals for gain when I need it I guess. :)

Really appreciate your comments.


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Post subject: Re: Tame the Loudness
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:25 pm
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I started out w/ a DRRI then bought an attenuator and a speaker change(dropped from 100w to 50w), blah blah ok they do have there place and the speaker change was definitely the most beneficial.
Then I got a TV Deluxe, runs about 12-13watts & 12" 25W speaker depending on the bias/tubes. Still produces a serious overall loudness just slightly less than the DRRI on 7/8.
Recently got an old National put together very similar to the Champ that is about 7 watts w/ an 8inch speaker,
that is perfect in a 14x20 foot room.

So basically not only the output wattage but the speaker size/efficiency rating will impact the loudness.
And they all certainly produce good sonic characteristics when played at max design spec/volume levels.


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Post subject: Re: Tame the Loudness
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:29 am
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I think the word you're looking for is "louditocity". :roll: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Tame the Loudness
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:08 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
mud wrote:
I found a BFVC 5watt, so much better on my ears and family...


The kids turn their noses up at these vintage gems because they're not bright and shiny, there's no blinking lights, no Bluetooth hookup, no way to program it with FUSE software, no reverb, they smell weird, yadda yadda yadda.

But you and I know better.

:wink:

Arjay


Good point.
I just can't say enough about about the VC as a practice amp, at a moderate volume and EQ- V 6, T 7, B 7, it will let you know every mistake you make, very unforgiving, than crank it to 10 for that OD sound.
mud


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Post subject: Re: Tame the Loudness
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:27 pm
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mud wrote:
Good point.
I just can't say enough about about the VC as a practice amp, at a moderate volume and EQ- V 6, T 7, B 7, it will let you know every mistake you make, very unforgiving, than crank it to 10 for that OD sound.
mud


There is a reason why good used ones still go for $500+. These are not only good practice amps, they are great recording amps.

Plus, they are easy to maintain. Parts are still readily available. You can't say that with most of the newer solid-state practice amps, that were built to replace the original Champs and Vibro-Champs.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R4 ... p&_sacat=0

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Post subject: Re: Tame the Loudness
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:21 pm
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Love that Tele, Steve. Lake Placid Blue?

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Tame the Loudness
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:31 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Love that Tele, Steve. Lake Placid Blue?

Arjay


Thanks! Yup, Lake Placid Blue. Early 1990s MIM Tele. :D


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Post subject: Re: Tame the Loudness
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:23 pm
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Thanks, guys. I'll check out the V-Champs. On a related note, I have a little 10-watt Acoustic bass amp I keep along with one guitar in the living room for easy access and impromptu strumming. 8" speaker, no effects, no reverb, and, yes, no tube-y goodness. Still, that little amp is surprisingly clean, articulate, and punchy and worthy of a shout-out for such purposes.


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Post subject: Re: Tame the Loudness
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:28 pm
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stuballatt, if you decide to go the vintage Champ or VC route... the silverface models (including the Bronco) have nearly identical circuits to the famous blackface models. And a whole lot cheaper.

And... there are a bunch of us here, that have redone these great amps. Think we have the parts, mods, fixes, etc down. :)


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