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Post subject: Fender 57 Deluxe problem
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:31 am
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Hello first post here.

My Fender 57 Deluxe amp lost volume at a rehearsal, took it to the amp repairers and he diagnosed a faulty output transformer. I had a new one fitted and all seemed fine. Yesterday however after five minutes of playing the sound faded away to nothing. If I switch the amp off and leave it for five minutes it powers up fine but again the power fades away. Any ideas? Faulty rectifier valve maybe?


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Post subject: Re: Fender 57 Deluxe problem
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:00 am
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Return amp to the tech, he may not finish his job or do not find the problem. I hope he give you the old ( and good one ? ) transformer

Check all tube
More chance there are a solder become bad with heat.
Or resistor


Last edited by stratele52 on Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Fender 57 Deluxe problem
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:26 am
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stratele52 wrote:
Return amp to the tech, he may not finish his job or do not find the problem. I hope he give the old ( and good one ? ) transformer

Check all tube
More chance there are a solder become bad with heat.
Or resistor


Yes its going back on Friday, I swapped the output valves today and still the same. I've ordered a replacement rectifier valve to test that too but think its probably a dodgy joint somewhere that maybe expanding when the amp heats up.


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Post subject: Re: Fender 57 Deluxe problem
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:51 am
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Did the tech check the idle bias of the 6V6GT tubes?


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Post subject: Re: Fender 57 Deluxe problem
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:12 am
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Did the tech check the idle bias of the 6V6GT tubes?


A misadjusted idle-bias current would not cause the symptoms. More likely, a marginal solder joint -- possibly in the heater voltage wiring. Inspect the soldering at each tube socket and reheat/reflow any joints that look wonky. Then check the entire harness for continuity. If that cures the problem, fire your amp tech and demand that he return your money. It obviously wasn't a defective output tranny.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Fender 57 Deluxe problem
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:41 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
BMW2002Ti wrote:
Did the tech check the idle bias of the 6V6GT tubes?


A misadjusted idle-bias current would not cause the symptoms. More likely, a marginal solder joint -- possibly in the heater voltage wiring. Inspect the soldering at each tube socket and reheat/reflow any joints that look wonky. Then check the entire harness for continuity. If that cures the problem, fire your amp tech and demand that he return your money. It obviously wasn't a defective output tranny.

Arjay



+1


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Post subject: Re: Fender 57 Deluxe problem
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:06 pm
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I think the output transformer was faulty, forgot to say I rehearsed last week for three hours at full volume with no problem. It wasn't until practice yesterday that I had this new problem. The problem prior to me taking it to the tech was I lost volume, probably half power. That was fixed with the new output transformer, the new issue is its fine for 5-10 minutes then gradually fades away to nothing.


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Post subject: Re: Fender 57 Deluxe problem
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:08 pm
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Did he give you back the old transformer ?


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Post subject: Re: Fender 57 Deluxe problem
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:05 pm
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andrewbyrom wrote:
...forgot to say I rehearsed last week for three hours at full volume with no problem.


:shock:

Back in the day, the original Deluxe Amp would have no problems handling such a demand because Fender built their gear to commercial/industrial specs. The stuff they turn out today is made to consumer standards, ie: disposable junk. Difficult to accept but the truth nonetheless. You've just learned a very expensive lesson.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fender 57 Deluxe problem
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:02 am
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stratele52 wrote:
Did he give you back the old transformer ?


Yes I've got it.


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Post subject: Re: Fender 57 Deluxe problem
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:05 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
andrewbyrom wrote:
...forgot to say I rehearsed last week for three hours at full volume with no problem.


:shock:

Back in the day, the original Deluxe Amp would have no problems handling such a demand because Fender built their gear to commercial/industrial specs. The stuff they turn out today is made to consumer standards, ie: disposable junk. Difficult to accept but the truth nonetheless. You've just learned a very expensive lesson.

Arjay


I have had this amp for approx 10 years, never had a problem till now. So I would say it's been very reliable till now.


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Post subject: Re: Fender 57 Deluxe problem
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:12 am
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andrewbyrom wrote:
I have had this amp for approx 10 years, never had a problem till now. So I would say it's been very reliable till now.


Of all things on the newer reissued and vintage re-do Fender amps, trannies do not seem to be a chronic problem. Your "fading" power (rather than loud, then quiet, then loud again) indicates possible instability in the output stage.

Underbiased (too hot) output tubes sometimes leads to reduced power, with extended use. Problems with the screen and/or grid stopper resistors on the 6V6GT can also lead to instabilities that reduce output. Should have another, more qualified tech look at the amp.

Good luck! Keep us posted.
:)


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Post subject: Re: Fender 57 Deluxe problem
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:00 am
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A slow fade can come from two sources. Loss of filament voltage or DC buildup on the grid of a preamp tube.
Socket pins can overheat and lose connection. Tension the pins for a firm grip. Ceramic sockets with just two fingers to grip the pin are suceptable to corrosion and arcing from overheating. This damages the capability of the socket to carry high filament current.

DC on the grid can occur due to the nature of the layout of many Fender amps. The 1Meg resistor that is the ground reference for the input grid is mounted on the input jack itself. So if the nut on the jack is loose, it can allow the grid voltage to rise, slowly cutting the volume to zero. Shutting off the amp for just a second brings the sound back.
Make sure the jack nuts are tight.

Speaking of Deluxes, I just finished a 5E3 for a customer. It was for his son. I had previously built the same kit for him and he thought it was the best sounding amp in the world. He liked it so much he wanted his son to have one too.
This time I got in on the ground floor of planning it and recommended using a real Fender output transformer.
He called back after A/Bing the two. I'm flabberghasted, he said. How can it sound so much better than mine? The only difference is the output transformer .........


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Post subject: Re: Fender 57 Deluxe problem
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:30 am
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Cool stuff! Where did you source an original 5E3 output tranny? Was it a Triad?

Thanks!


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Post subject: Re: Fender 57 Deluxe problem
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:02 am
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Uh, No. I'm not gonna build a new amp with an OT that has 50 year old paper in it.
I mean a genuine Fender replacement. Not an OT for a Fender.
The TF41318 is a current production 25 watt OT for the Deluxe.
While I have previously measured big differences between stock and aftermarket transformers, this is the first time an accomplished musician has commented on the sonic improvements. He describes better bass and brighter smoother treble.


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