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Post subject: Hot Rod Deluxe 3 Second Clean channel?
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:43 pm
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Hello there, I've got an interesting question...since the majority (including myself) of people dislike the drive channel on the HRD, is there a way to make the "drive" channel a secondary clean channel with a master volume? So essentially you would have your first channel the normal one volume channel and the second (drive) channel would be an exact replica of the clean channel but with a pre & post volume? That way you can set your clean volume at a level and when you channel switch its just a crunchier version of the clean channel. I've already doubled the capacitance in the first filter stage, clipped R105 reverb mod and replaced the plate load resistors. I'm thinking about doing the Negative feedback mod with the 50k pot for adjustable or just clip R69. I really like this amp for the pedal platform that it is and I'm determined mod this to perfection...and essentially end up doing a complete PTP transformation.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe 3 Second Clean channel?
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:11 pm
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The HRD is not really a three-channel amp. What it is, is a single-channel amp with three modes. When the "clean" is selected, only one preamp tube is engaged, with each half providing the primary and secondary stages of amplification. When the "drive" mode is chosen, one half of a second preamp tube is cascaded into the signal path which increases the overall gain. The "more drive" setting cascades the second half of that tube into the circuit for maximum overdrive.

I have seen HRD amps re-built into the platform that you envision with two semi-independent channels, sharing only the tone controls, presence control, bright switch, and reverb. However (as you may have surmised) it involved gutting the entire chassis and fabricating a new turret board to accommodate the wiring changes. All of the original iron was recycled into the new layout which helped defray the costs. It is not a job for beginners, trust me.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe 3 Second Clean channel?
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:36 pm
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Thanks retro. The turret board is the "endgame" for me as I think I will eventually end up there. I completely understand that it is not an easy/beginner job, though I may just eventually use this amp as the lab rat and then PTP build it to the specs I prefer. Any opinion/info on the negative feedback? To me this sounds like the next step..I also just put in an order for the yellow jacket el84 adapters.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe 3 Second Clean channel?
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:48 pm
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There is a mod I do that almost accomplishes what you are looking for.
Its a proprietary mod I developed myself.
I'll let you use it if you don't tell anyone OK?
Get a new master volume control. Now the stock one is a linear taper. A common mod is to change this to the same value with an audio taper.
If you can find one that also has a switch. A turn off style is what I use.
Now wire that switch into the coil circuit of Relay 2.
It takes a bit of trace cutting and a bypass wire around the coil to get it, but this simple switch will prevent the Drive channel from engaging.
The result is two normal channels with an inoperative Master control.
There is a slight difference because of the coupling capacitors in the respective volume control circuits of each channel. You can match these for even tone or mix for differentiation.
The More Drive now becomes a rather saturated sound and is, to my ear, much more pleasant to listen to..

The feedback mod I utilize is a switch and a 10K resistor across the present feedback resistor. It mounts between the preamp tubes.

There are few CB issues on a HRDX that would justify ripping the guts out and P-P the thing,
You can rewire the distant controls with shielded wire and replace the small signal path caps with silver mica.

Then upgrade the op amps with TLE2072 low noise, hi speed versions.

If you have any money left, spend a couple hundred bucks on preamp tubes. They are plug and play performance marvels.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe 3 Second Clean channel?
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:59 pm
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Wow. Thanks Tims, I may try that. Very curious. All in all I wish Fender just made a single channel HRD or what they just came out with in the deville, the michael landau model.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe 3 Second Clean channel?
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:13 pm
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For a short time several years ago I used a two amp rig utilizing an ABY switch to simulate switchable channels.
In reality each amp served as one of my two "channels".
One amp was 50 watts and set to run clean.
The other amp was 20 watts and set to run slightly overdriven while producing roughly the same SPL.
Both amps were 1x12.
Running both at the same time was a truly impressive sound.
The larger amp providing spank and chime and sparkle while the smaller amp provided a little growl.
It is a very compelling sound.
I never did get around to building a custom-made stand so I could 'stack' the amps to reduce the stage footprint back to one amp but that was the plan at the time.

It may well be that obtaining a second amp and an ABY switch would be cheaper, or at least easier, than modifying an existing amp.

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe 3 Second Clean channel?
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:39 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
For a short time several years ago I used a two amp rig utilizing an ABY switch to simulate switchable channels.
In reality each amp served as one of my two "channels".
One amp was 50 watts and set to run clean.
The other amp was 20 watts and set to run slightly overdriven while producing roughly the same SPL.
Both amps were 1x12.
Running both at the same time was a truly impressive sound.
The larger amp providing spank and chime and sparkle while the smaller amp provided a little growl.
It is a very compelling sound.
I never did get around to building a custom-made stand so I could 'stack' the amps to reduce the stage footprint back to one amp but that was the plan at the time.

It may well be that obtaining a second amp and an ABY switch would be cheaper, or at least easier, than modifying an existing amp.


+1

In the past I'd periodically play a similar rig onstage, with these two amps providing the muscle......

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The brown "Pro Amp" is actually a 40-watt Bandmaster head converted to a 2 x 10 combo while the blonde Spankmaster drives its 22 watts through a 15-inch JBL. It worked well and sounded terrific but was only practical at larger venues with ample stage space.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe 3 Second Clean channel?
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:44 pm
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Wow nice! As a lover of Stevie Ray Vaughan I too wanted to do the two am one clean one dirty thing. In honesty I may (eventually) build an amp with two PTP single channel amps/speakers in it that are one trick ponies so that it all can be under one roof....but that's my fantasy. My brain is now spinning with ideas, having the fender clean and marshall overdrive, or fuchs or orange....the possibilities are endless. But for now i'm going to mod and figure this amp to my liking and then figure out how to build the most simple one channel clean amp PTP amp. Still trying to figure out if I want to cut the negative feedback loop or put in the 50k pot for a sweepable amount.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe 3 Second Clean channel?
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:37 pm
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OldSaintNick wrote:
In honesty I may (eventually) build an amp with two PTP single channel amps/speakers in it that are one trick ponies so that it all can be under one roof....but that's my fantasy.


Something like a Super Reverb or a blackface Vibroverb might accomplish that mission. Use an A/B/Y pedal to control two independent signal chains, each routed to its own channel. Add stompboxes and effects to each of the chains for various voicings and OD tones.

Arjay

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