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Post subject: Re: NAD: All good + a little bad
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:59 pm
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OK so got the new amp. On the good side, there seems to be no cap issue. The amp is silent and appears to work as it should for the most part after about 45 mins of usage.

On the bad side, it does not sound as good as the one I sent back. Seems to not break up as early and there is much more clean headroom. I have OD pedals so can work with it, just a bit disappointing. Also I noticed a very slight oscillation noise when the vibrato is engaged if I am not playing. That may be completely normal but I never noticed that on the other one.

The only real problem problem I have with the new one is that the vibrato switch on the footswitch does not actually click like the reverb button so at low vibrato levels it is tough to tell if the effect is being engaged/disengaged so I have emailed the vendor to see if I can swap it with the switch that went back with the bad amp.

The jury is still out, but as of right now while this amp seems to be working properly, it is a bit of a disappointment compared to the one I just sent back which sounded awesome right off the bat. I am gonna need to work with this one a bit more but am not giving up on it yet.


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Post subject: Re: NAD: All good + a little bad
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:15 pm
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The noise from your last clip was much like the noise I described coming from my TRRI. It was too late for me, but good that you could send yours back. I wouldn't waste any time sending this one back as well. Maybe the best 1 out of 3? What a hassle. At this price, you should be 100% thrilled. "All good + a little bad" is no good.


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Post subject: Re: NAD: All good + a little bad
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:21 pm
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LawFlow wrote:
The noise from your last clip was much like the noise I described coming from my TRRI. It was too late for me, but good that you could send yours back. I wouldn't waste any time sending this one back as well. Maybe the best 1 out of 3? What a hassle. At this price, you should be 100% thrilled. "All good + a little bad" is no good.


over on another board a lot of people thought bad capacitor but better off exchanging. I am not as thrilled with the sound of the replacement but want to work with it some more.


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Post subject: Re: NAD: All good + a little bad
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:23 pm
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LawFlow wrote:
At this price, you should be 100% thrilled. "All good + a little bad" is no good.


+1000

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Post subject: Re: NAD: All good + a little bad
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:19 am
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After hearing the first clip... Not good at all.. No amp shouldn't hum like that. ( & returning .. what? Two? not a good experience at all )

The question I have... Is where are you getting these amps from? That could be the problem in itself!

I'm in the Logistics/Warehousing business. Before that..... I used to repair 3 phase control units for boiler pumps and aquatic parks .. schematics the size of phone books... did a lot of PCB repair. I have newer amps where the circuit board is printed... and they sound great.. and quite and perform fine. I've seen similar post about guys getting lemons then sending them back only to get another lemon. (From where is the question?)

Currently, being in the business of logistical warehousing... what goes on you would be amazed. A lot of companies (Retail in nature) look at logistics & warehousing as an expense and run sub rate docks. (it seems it's where these types of business like to cut corners to save a buck) Over worked, under paid management and staff... equates to "Joe I don't care!" Instead of getting a pallet jack to off load 6 boxed DRRI's from Fender... 'Joe I don't Care" throws them on the ground and kicks them across the dock like a soccer ball to the desired location of storage. Guess what... just about any amp after that is going to have some sort of intermittent problem... I've seen it with my own eyes (not with amps but with similar Hi Fi equipment) The last time I saw a post like this the gentleman was doing business with a certain large retailer... Do they run there warehouse (in Kansas City...hint) like a corporate expense.. Wouldn't shock me if they did...

I manage a large warehouse for a tier 1 automotive supplier.. On the supply side... companies tend not to look at logistics as an expense to cut corners. It's their product they want it where it's supposed to go in fine working order and in great shape. I've only gone direct with Fender (the supply side.) Amps comes via UPS, amps comes out of box... and they performs as expected.

With going direct you might have to wait , if you notice sometimes they say "out of stock" ... but if it means you're not going to play musical chairs with amps & get what you expect... Well......... might be an option people should look at more often..


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Post subject: Re: NAD: All good + a little bad
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:28 am
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pcalugaru wrote:
After hearing the first clip... Not good at all.. No amp shouldn't hum like that. ( & returning .. what? Two? not a good experience at all )

The question I have... Is where are you getting these amps from? That could be the problem in itself!

I'm in the Logistics/Warehousing business. Before that..... I used to repair 3 phase control units for boiler pumps and aquatic parks .. schematics the size of phone books... did a lot of PCB repair. I have newer amps where the circuit board is printed... and they sound great.. and quite and perform fine. I've seen similar post about guys getting lemons then sending them back only to get another lemon. (From where is the question?)

Currently, being in the business of logistical warehousing... what goes on you would be amazed. A lot of companies (Retail in nature) look at logistics & warehousing as an expense and run sub rate docks. (it seems it's where these types of business like to cut corners to save a buck) Over worked, under paid management and staff... equates to "Joe I don't care!" Instead of getting a pallet jack to off load 6 boxed DRRI's from Fender... 'Joe I don't Care" throws them on the ground and kicks them across the dock like a soccer ball to the desired location of storage. Guess what... just about any amp after that is going to have some sort of intermittent problem... I've seen it with my own eyes (not with amps but with similar Hi Fi equipment) The last time I saw a post like this the gentleman was doing business with a certain large retailer... Do they run there warehouse (in Kansas City...hint) like a corporate expense.. Wouldn't shock me if they did...

I manage a large warehouse for a tier 1 automotive supplier.. On the supply side... companies tend not to look at logistics as an expense to cut corners. It's their product they want it where it's supposed to go in fine working order and in great shape. I've only gone direct with Fender (the supply side.) Amps comes via UPS, amps comes out of box... and they performs as expected.

With going direct you might have to wait , if you notice sometimes they say "out of stock" ... but if it means you're not going to play musical chairs with amps & get what you expect... Well......... might be an option people should look at more often..


I went through zzounds because they are the only retailer I could find with the brown tolex in stock. These ship out of their warehouse in Reno. Having lived in Reno I can tell you the quality of warehouse staff there is not very quality at all. on top of things I am pretty sure the replacement amp was an open box return. I did call Fender to ensure it was not a refurb and they assured me it wasn't and the amp was only produced 4 months ago.


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Post subject: Re: NAD: All good + a little bad
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:04 pm
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Open returned box??? Hell Noooooo! Homie don't play that! (yea I just dated myself)

That's what I'm talking about.. I once had a job at Lowe's.. and the customer service counter where they would take returns & the people wouldn't even look inside the boxes. We' would find severely used and damaged product later on when we went to put it back on the shelf to sale again... so many times this was missed. Only to be found by the customer.

Sounds like something like that happen with that amp.. Either the derp head before you got a defective amp (from being kicked around the warehouse.. who knows) or he/she dropped it down a flight of stairs, once broke sends it back (again who knows) Zsounds.. OBVIOUSLY didn't check the amp. re-taped it and set it to you.. saw a similar post/thread involving a Brown Princeton and Guitar Center. (probably a similar set of circumstances)

Go direct (even if it means waiting till the amp you want gets restocked) You will get one straight from the factory.. No middle man warehouse, no BS "out of the box" returns etc... Every new amp I've bought was a Fender and done direct.. No problems with the amps, no problems in the shipping... You can even call them direct and talk with a Fender sales rep...


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Post subject: Re: NAD: All good + a little bad
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:34 pm
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pcalugaru wrote:
Open returned box??? Hell Noooooo! Homie don't play that! (yea I just dated myself)

That's what I'm talking about.. I once had a job at Lowe's.. and the customer service counter where they would take returns & the people wouldn't even look inside the boxes. We' would find severely used and damaged product later on when we went to put it back on the shelf to sale again... so many times this was missed. Only to be found by the customer.

Sounds like something like that happen with that amp.. Either the derp head before you got a defective amp (from being kicked around the warehouse.. who knows) or he/she dropped it down a flight of stairs, once broke sends it back (again who knows) Zsounds.. OBVIOUSLY didn't check the amp. re-taped it and set it to you.. saw a similar post/thread involving a Brown Princeton and Guitar Center. (probably a similar set of circumstances)

Go direct (even if it means waiting till the amp you want gets restocked) You will get one straight from the factory.. No middle man warehouse, no BS "out of the box" returns etc... Every new amp I've bought was a Fender and done direct.. No problems with the amps, no problems in the shipping... You can even call them direct and talk with a Fender sales rep...


well I don't know that anything happened to this second amp before since it appears to be functioning properly except the one switch. I just suspect it was a return because the power cord was not wrapped up neatly inside the padded envelope on the back and also the plastic sleeve with the owner manual has an uneven cut on the top opening so assuming it was sealed and cut open. I can't recall how the original amp ppw came.

how do you buy direct from Fender? I don't see that option on the site, do you have to call them?


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Post subject: Re: NAD: All good + a little bad
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:56 pm
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dsouza.b.a wrote:
pcalugaru wrote:
After hearing the first clip... Not good at all.. No amp shouldn't hum like that. ( & returning .. what? Two? not a good experience at all )

The question I have... Is where are you getting these amps from? That could be the problem in itself!

I'm in the Logistics/Warehousing business. Before that..... I used to repair 3 phase control units for boiler pumps and aquatic parks .. schematics the size of phone books... did a lot of PCB repair. I have newer amps where the circuit board is printed... and they sound great.. and quite and perform fine. I've seen similar post about guys getting lemons then sending them back only to get another lemon. (From where is the question?)

Currently, being in the business of logistical warehousing... what goes on you would be amazed. A lot of companies (Retail in nature) look at logistics & warehousing as an expense and run sub rate docks. (it seems it's where these types of business like to cut corners to save a buck) Over worked, under paid management and staff... equates to "Joe I don't care!" Instead of getting a pallet jack to off load 6 boxed DRRI's from Fender... 'Joe I don't Care" throws them on the ground and kicks them across the dock like a soccer ball to the desired location of storage. Guess what... just about any amp after that is going to have some sort of intermittent problem... I've seen it with my own eyes (not with amps but with similar Hi Fi equipment) The last time I saw a post like this the gentleman was doing business with a certain large retailer... Do they run there warehouse (in Kansas City...hint) like a corporate expense.. Wouldn't shock me if they did...

I manage a large warehouse for a tier 1 automotive supplier.. On the supply side... companies tend not to look at logistics as an expense to cut corners. It's their product they want it where it's supposed to go in fine working order and in great shape. I've only gone direct with Fender (the supply side.) Amps comes via UPS, amps comes out of box... and they performs as expected.

With going direct you might have to wait , if you notice sometimes they say "out of stock" ... but if it means you're not going to play musical chairs with amps & get what you expect... Well......... might be an option people should look at more often..


I went through zzounds because they are the only retailer I could find with the brown tolex in stock. These ship out of their warehouse in Reno. Having lived in Reno I can tell you the quality of warehouse staff there is not very quality at all. on top of things I am pretty sure the replacement amp was an open box return. I did call Fender to ensure it was not a refurb and they assured me it wasn't and the amp was only produced 4 months ago.
There is no way I would ever buy an open box Fender amp. It was returned for a reason! I certainly hope you got the discounted open box price. I wonder how many of these limited editions Zzounds has. I bet these 2 are it. IDK, I'm getting an uneasy feeling about this. Don't just settle. It's too big a purchase and don't expect resale to be any good on these. BTY, Fender no longer has this limited edition available direct per their website. They offer a Navy Blue Limited for $1,400. That's what I paid for my new Twin Reverb. Don't do that!


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Post subject: Re: NAD: All good + a little bad
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:12 pm
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LawFlow wrote:
There is no way I would ever buy an open box amplifier, especially a Fender. It was returned for a reason!

Yeah, but for some Fender tube amps that reason could be "I had no clue how LOUD I have to play this thing to get some crunch"... :shock:
(For Orange amps, I think a significant amount of returns are due to a significant other saying "No way you're putting that ugly thing in the house, return it!")


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Post subject: Re: NAD: All good + a little bad
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:38 pm
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arth1 wrote:
LawFlow wrote:
There is no way I would ever buy an open box amplifier, especially a Fender. It was returned for a reason!

Yeah, but for some Fender tube amps that reason could be "I had no clue how LOUD I have to play this thing to get some crunch"... :shock:
(For Orange amps, I think a significant amount of returns are due to a significant other saying "No way you're putting that ugly thing in the house, return it!")
That's funny. Of course, I make the assumption that the folks that buy these blackface reissues (like me) have the understanding that they are notoriously clean amps that won't breakup until you break windows in your house. :)


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Post subject: Re: NAD: All good + a little bad
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:53 pm
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how do you buy direct from Fender? I don't see that option on the site, do you have to call them?

You can order over the phone. (it's on the site) Or you you can do it online here at the internet site. The first time I did was after seeing the Michael Landau Hot Rod Deville, no one had one to try.. the simplified & improved Hot Rod tone stack and super gig friendly controls advertised really intrigued me. I also wanted a new extension cab for it, but didn't know what Fender offered ohms wise.. called Fender and they put me in contact with their Midwest rep. Placed the order over the phone. I Fully expected to return it all... I didin't normally order equipment over the phone, especially with not ever playing one.... Amp and ext cab came and sounds beyond good, put my 72 twin in a closet 9 months ago... Because of this about a month ago I ordered a new HRDx III and ext cab. I have to use a ext cab with HRDx but that's for another thread as to why. I've gigged a 2001 HRDx for many years...still works fine. Just thought I'd get another. Once Again via UPS the HRD III came ... & works fine. It's quite, no issues and performs gig wise flawlessly.

but... people got to know

Tube amps will hum & that's the nature of them...but normal is at a marginal/low volume. If you have dirty current or the polarity of the electrical outlet is reversed this can cause excessive hum in a fine working amp.

Or

If your using multiple outlets to power your pedals and your amp.. you get a ground loop.. and this will cause excessive hum in any amp. Only use one outlet/power source to prevent ground loops!


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Post subject: Re: NAD: All good + a little bad
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:00 pm
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pcalugaru wrote:
how do you buy direct from Fender? I don't see that option on the site, do you have to call them?

You can order over the phone. (it's on the site) Or you you can do it online here at the internet site. The first time I did was after seeing the Michael Landau Hot Rod Deville, no one had one to try.. the simplified & improved Hot Rod tone stack and super gig friendly controls advertised really intrigued me. I also wanted a new extension cab for it, but didn't know what Fender offered ohms wise.. called Fender and they put me in contact with their Midwest rep. Placed the order over the phone. I Fully expected to return it all... I didin't normally order equipment over the phone, especially with not ever playing one.... Amp and ext cab came and sounds beyond good, put my 72 twin in a closet 9 months ago... Because of this about a month ago I ordered a new HRDx III and ext cab. I have to use a ext cab with HRDx but that's for another thread as to why. I've gigged a 2001 HRDx for many years...still works fine. Just thought I'd get another. Once Again via UPS the HRD III came ... & works fine. It's quite, no issues and performs gig wise flawlessly.

but... people got to know

Tube amps will hum & that's the nature of them...but normal is at a marginal/low volume. If you have dirty current or the polarity of the electrical outlet is reversed this can cause excessive hum in a fine working amp.

Or

If your using multiple outlets to power your pedals and your amp.. you get a ground loop.. and this will cause excessive hum in any amp. Only use one outlet/power source to prevent ground loops!


I put a phase detector on the outlet and it is reading correct. Also the same outlet is powering the amp and pedals.


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Post subject: Re: NAD: All good + a little bad
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:50 pm
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It is hard to differentiate between a normal "properly functioning" tube amp and a defective one until you hear a few good ones. If you want dead quiet, get Mustang and turn up the noise gate.

I will take a good tube amp with normal hiss over the 'Stang. I made it he swap earlier this year with zero regrets.

I suspect your tube amp is normal and functioing as intended.

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Post subject: Re: NAD: All good + a little bad
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:12 am
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Archtop Bill wrote:
It is hard to differentiate between a normal "properly functioning" tube amp and a defective one until you hear a few good ones. If you want dead quiet, get Mustang and turn up the noise gate.

I will take a good tube amp with normal hiss over the 'Stang. I made it he swap earlier this year with zero regrets.

I suspect your tube amp is normal and functioing as intended.
A DRRI is supposed to be clean with later breakup. I'm sure experimenting with tubes could change that to an extent. My 2014 Twin Reverb Reissue is absolutely dead quiet. With EQ's wide open, bright on, and volume at 3, & nothing plugged in, I hear nothing but silence. As I go past 3 up to 10, I get a very gradual low hiss. When I first got it, right out of the box, I had an idle hiss which didn't respond to any adjustments. After getting some clues from this forum, I isolated it to a bad preamp tube in V4. Problem solved.

This is why I tell folks not to settle for less than quiet from a good Fender blackface reissue tube amp. It's a good design. The TRRI is the powerhouse of these blackface reissues. If it is quiet, I don't know why the others wouldn't be the same. I'm not talking about the 68 custom reissues or other series/brands, just the vintage blackface. I have no experience with the others. Having said all that, I agree. It sounds like your amp is sounding as it should if you're not experiencing hiss/noise..

On the direct purchase, I believe you can order from their site (or phone) just like you would any online store. I've never tried it, but plan to in the near future.


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