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Post subject: Re: Not much on Vibroking-king
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:38 pm
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Indeed. Either way I spend money. I've already commissioned my tech to do the repair work to the reverb (and upgrade a number of other questionable caps and resistors while he was in there). So he'd have to reverse all that work - which I'd have to pay him to do. Then deal with the warranty process, which from what I've heard is awful and could potentially go nowhere (there's many a story of stuff coming back "repaired" and still having the same problem it went out for).

OR do I just double down and buy the new tranny and call it a day? I mean, it should potentially be good for another 30 years.

So my options are:
1) spend some money and potentially go through a lot of hassle and headache (not to mention having the amp MIA for several months while the local Fender authorized tech shop farts around with it)
2) spend more money but have it guaranteed to be not only repaired but rather with superior components.

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Post subject: Re: Not much on Vibroking-king
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:18 pm
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If you're relying on this amp for professional purposes (ie: it has to work every time you switch it on), you have two viable options IMO. One, let your tech upgrade and replace all suspect components and the warranty be damned. Or two, have him fix it to the extent that it's playable, broom it off, then get yourself something truly reliable in its stead.

A third option applies only if you're a hobbyist and noodle solely at home and that would be to have your tech return the amp to 100% stock trim (with the bogus factory parts), take it to an FMIC-authorized service center, and have them repair it. Frankly I have little faith in this endeavor as the amp seems destined to be a hangar queen.

I don't know of anything else that can be done.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Not much on Vibroking-king
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:37 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
If you're relying on this amp for professional purposes (ie: it has to work every time you switch it on), you have two viable options IMO. One, let your tech upgrade and replace all suspect components and the warranty be damned. Or two, have him fix it to the extent that it's playable, broom it off, then get yourself something truly reliable in its stead.

A third option applies only if you're a hobbyist and noodle solely at home and that would be to have your tech return the amp to 100% stock trim (with the bogus factory parts), take it to an FMIC-authorized service center, and have them repair it. Frankly I have little faith in this endeavor as the amp seems destined to be a hangar queen.

I don't know of anything else that can be done.

A third option is to find a second one and use it as a spare. There's something to be said for sticking with what you know, and not switch out either components or switch amps, but it's not the cheapest solution, for sure.


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Post subject: Re: Not much on Vibroking-king
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:39 pm
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Well you hit it there. I DO gig. Not super regular, but when the shows do come they are gigs that command quite a bit more cash than your average bar band. So that means the equipment has to work and has to do so reliably. I can't afford to have my amp fizz out halfway through a set.

With how far into it I am at this point I'm heavily leaning toward just having my tech upgrade it properly and make it my forever amp. It should be reliable after that. My wife did even make the suggestion, "just sell it", but I'd probably lose as much in that process as it would take to just fix it right to begin with.

At least I didn't pay full retail for this thing (I actually paid used market price even though it was new).

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Post subject: Re: Not much on Vibroking-king
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:07 am
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Powdered Toast Man wrote:
Well you hit it there. I DO gig. Not super regular, but when the shows do come they are gigs that command quite a bit more cash than your average bar band. So that means the equipment has to work and has to do so reliably. I can't afford to have my amp fizz out halfway through a set.

With how far into it I am at this point I'm heavily leaning toward just having my tech upgrade it properly and make it my forever amp. It should be reliable after that. My wife did even make the suggestion, "just sell it", but I'd probably lose as much in that process as it would take to just fix it right to begin with.

At least I didn't pay full retail for this thing (I actually paid used market price even though it was new).
Well you said it was the floor model, as I see it,.... it was possibly quite used before you owned it.
Personally I would let your reliable tech fill it with quality parts, being your in it for some money already and if you sent it back to fender they may see it has be messed with and deny your warranty request.
mud


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Post subject: Re: Not much on Vibroking-king
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:06 am
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mud wrote:
...and if you sent it back to fender they may see it has be messed with and deny your warranty request.


As well, they'll merely replace the components that failed prematurely with the same cheap crap that it was built with in the first place.

:x

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Not much on Vibroking-king
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:36 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
mud wrote:
...and if you sent it back to fender they may see it has be messed with and deny your warranty request.


As well, they'll merely replace the components that failed prematurely with the same cheap crap that it was built with in the first place.

:x

Arjay


EXACTLY! :x

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Post subject: Re: Not much on Vibroking-king
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:58 pm
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Update: FINALLY got the amp back from my tech last night. New Mercury Magnetics power transformer. All "IC" garbage caps replaced with F&T. A few critical resistors replaced as well. On top of that, my tech FIXED the tremolo (because it was irritating him so much :lol: ). He replaced the trem bug but also had to fiddle with a whole bunch of the wiring on that side of the amp to get it to stop ticking. Moved the ground wires away from the hot leads, bunched and wrapped most of it too. It's as close to silent as it's going to get - which is actually pretty darn quiet.

So the total bill (and keep in mind this is Canadian funds) was close to $800. HALF of that was the Power Transformer ($292 US plus shipping and taxes - convert that to Canadian at about $0.75 per US dollar).

How does it sound? Completely different! The amp has way more clean headroom than before. That's most likely because there's consistent voltages throughout the amp, as well as all the caps are now at their peak values. This is PROBABLY what the amp is supposed to sound like in the first place. (My tech has an early 90's VK sitting in his shop and he told me that one was way cleaner sounding than mine was before all this work). The other thing is that the amp's overall tone is simply better. I find I'm not struggling to dial it in. It's sparkly and shimmering.

I'm pleased with how it sounds NOW. What I'm not pleased with is that I had to spend $800 to get it to sound like Fender's top of the line amp is supposed to sound in the first place. So that's what Fender's "USA made", "Custom Shop", "Hand wired" amps get you - the cheapest IC caps available (rated for a whopping 2000 hours lifespan), paired with a pile of Chinese made transformers, mated to a trio of Italian speakers. All I will say is buyer beware.

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Post subject: Re: Not much on Vibroking-king
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:51 pm
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On the bright side, PTM -- you now have a "keeper".

Play it and enjoy it. It should last for decades.

Rawk on!

8)

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Not much on Vibroking-king
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:26 pm
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Glad you got the amp where you wanted and needed it to be. After all you have spent you could have just bought a vintage Fender amp! No judgement here, but would have been nice if Fender had built it correct in the first place. Fender needs to get back to sourcing parts from the US and leave the chicom crap to Ibanez!

At least you now have the amp you wanted and the reliability you needed! :wink:

T2

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Post subject: Re: Not much on Vibroking-king
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:19 pm
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T2Stratman wrote:
Fender needs to get back to sourcing parts from the US and leave the chicom crap to Ibanez!


WORD!

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Not much on Vibroking-king
Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:30 pm
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T2Stratman wrote:
Glad you got the amp where you wanted and needed it to be. After all you have spent you could have just bought a vintage Fender amp! No judgement here, but would have been nice if Fender had built it correct in the first place. Fender needs to get back to sourcing parts from the US and leave the chicom crap to Ibanez!

At least you now have the amp you wanted and the reliability you needed! :wink:

T2


Trust me, that thought has run through my mind a number of times since this all happened. Could have bought a vintage piece. Could have gotten a kit with top shelf parts. Could have gotten an independent builder to make me a classic amp using top shelf components.

It's interesting to see first hand what these import components are and how the affect the amp. My tech showed me stuff he's been getting when he orders "Genuine Fender" parts versus the stuff in older amps and/or high quality components. When you see stuff like how the resistor and cap leads now bend like wet spaghetti, or the solder tabs on the rocker switches are now paper thin, that the caps coming out of a $4000 amp are rated for 2000 hours, it makes you start to seriously question things. I'm sure the ASSEMBLY quality is fine, but it's the source of the components that's the issue.

And you think QC is going to catch these things? Take a look at how a hand wired amp is made at Fender. So the guy at the end powers it on for 20 seconds, plugs in some recorded music to make sure there's sound coming out, and THAT'S IT. How about letting the caps form? Making sure all the features work? I get the EC Champ is simple, but I didn't even see them throw the Vibrato on to see if it even works. That's their QC test - does it smoke? Does it make sound?

https://youtu.be/54sNv1Ck6dc

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Post subject: Re: Not much on Vibroking-king
Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:40 pm
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That's certainly not how Leo did things. Of course *his* company built the best fooking musical-instrument products in the world.

Back in the day, Fender built TOOLS.

Now they build toys.

:(

Tragic.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Not much on Vibroking-king
Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:35 pm
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Oh, as a side note, to Vibro King owners out there, if you want to tame the beast try swapping a 12AT7 into V4. I have a TAD 12AT7 in there and it makes a HUGE difference. It knocks the preamp gain way down so the amp has way more headroom than before. It's overall a bit quieter, but another side effect is the that the sometimes biting high end is tamed and it sounds much sweeter and sparkly. You almost lose the ability to get the amp to overdrive on its own, but in my experience that happens at a volume level that's of no use anywhere.

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