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Post subject: Opinions needed on possible '68 Vibrolux Reverb Purchase
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:34 pm
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I have an all original including speakers 1966 Super Reverb and I also have a 1971 Dual Showman Reverb. My Super is my favorite but love both but want a new amp. Just for something different. Been going back and forth on the '65 Deluxe RI or the '68 Vibrolux Reverb. To me when watching the demo videos the Vibrolux seems a tad warmer. Sadly there is not a store within a hundred miles to demo either. I like the idea of 2x10s vs one 12. Any thoughts would be great on either. On and I only play at home and play Strats, Teles, a Gibson R0 and a Derek Trucks SG. Thanks


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Post subject: Re: Opinions needed on possible '68 Vibrolux Reverb Purchase
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:38 pm
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lovehifi wrote:
To me when watching the demo videos the Vibrolux seems a tad warmer.
]


To choose a amp when listening them on video is not serious, it is like a lotto.

Sorry but you need to listen them in front of you.


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Post subject: Re: Opinions needed on possible '68 Vibrolux Reverb Purchase
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:52 pm
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I've played the '65 DRRI many times.
To my ears it's a pretty good facsimile of a real BFDR.
I also tried a '65 SRRI once and had the same impression.

I have not tried any of the '68 series of amps yet
As I understand it, they are unlike the '65 series in that they do not pretend to be re-issues.
Taking that into consideration, it's possible the '68 VR may not be as close to the real deal as the '65s are.
Elsewhere on the board we've recently discussed the differences between a DR and a VR and one of the differences that I mentioned was in the area of touch sensitivity. The difference is/was significant enough to cause some to love it and others to dislike it.

I think the best course would be to deal with the distance and any other negatively impacting logistical issues and find a way to play the actual amps before making a purchase. In my view, if you make a choice based on the opinions of a few who may have tried one or what may be written in some magazine article, well ... it's a gamble. I've done that myself in the past. I've purchased something from a distance without trying. Sometimes you get lucky and find yourself quite pleased with your purchase. Sometimes you're disappointed. Every time is a gamble. Find a way to get yourself to a store but until then, keep your GAS urges under control. The tighter your budget constraints are the more necessary it is to be sure before pulling the trigger.

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Post subject: Re: Opinions needed on possible '68 Vibrolux Reverb Purchase
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:55 pm
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stratele52 wrote:
To choose a amp when listening them on video is not serious, it is like a lotto.

Sorry but you need to listen them in front of you.


Absolutely, positively!

Basing a purchase decision solely on the audio portion of a youtube video is akin to playing Russian Roulette with a loaded Sig P229.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Opinions needed on possible '68 Vibrolux Reverb Purchase
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:39 pm
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I agree with the take the drive and go try them. I was also just reading about a Limited Edition '65 Deluxe that is wine colored and comes with a lower wattage speaker that helps with breakup sooner. That may also be a thought. I like Vox amps but Fenders just do it for me. When I want a lot of gain gain I use my JMV410HJS. Decisions. I think I will go with a Deluxe. Now which flavor. The Limited Edition, the '65 or the 68. Too many choices! Yes none will probably satisfy me like the Super but I expect that. On the other hand I can get break up sooner an have an easier amp to move around. Of course that will be a harder find to try since in is exclusive to Sweetwater. However there is a 45 day return too.


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Post subject: Re: Opinions needed on possible '68 Vibrolux Reverb Purchase
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:44 pm
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lovehifi, nice amps you have there. I guess a "real" silverface Vibrolux Reverb is out of the question? I can tell you from personal experience, it is a great amp. I have a 1971 VLR. Tone is much like the Deluxe Reverb. Bit better bass. The two 10-inch speakers have more harmonics and warmth than the single 12-inch --- for lead use, at least. IMHO. OD is sooner than the bigger 6L6GC amps, prolly due to PSU and PT used in the VLR (versus the Pro or Super).

Anyhow, prices for a silverface VLR are not completely outrageous. Not sure how much a new '68 Custom VLR costs.

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Post subject: Re: Opinions needed on possible '68 Vibrolux Reverb Purchase
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:18 pm
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Very nice! Looks in great shape too. Thanks for your thoughts.


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Post subject: Re: Opinions needed on possible '68 Vibrolux Reverb Purchase
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:15 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
lovehifi, nice amps you have there. I guess a "real" silverface Vibrolux Reverb is out of the question? I can tell you from personal experience, it is a great amp. I have a 1971 VLR. Tone is much like the Deluxe Reverb. Bit better bass. The two 10-inch speakers have more harmonics and warmth than the single 12-inch --- for lead use, at least. IMHO. OD is sooner than the bigger 6L6GC amps, prolly due to PSU and PT used in the VLR (versus the Pro or Super).

Anyhow, prices for a silverface VLR are not completely outrageous. Not sure how much a new '68 Custom VLR costs.

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It's a beauty, Steve!

The AA864 blackface edition is arguably the best of the breed. This example from January of 1966 came factory-equipped with Jensen C10NS's......

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Nothing built today sounds like the vintage Vibrolux Reverb's.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Opinions needed on possible '68 Vibrolux Reverb Purchase
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:36 pm
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You know I think you guys are right. I have made a decision to just search for an older black or silver face. I think if I get a RI after having this 66 Super I will be disappointed. Especially after I just loaded a NOS RCA Black plate in V1, a NOS RCA silver plate in V2 along with a NOS RCA 7205 in V4. It sounds so good. I will keep my eye out for a clean Vibrolux Reverb from yesteryear as I think that is the way to go. Thanks guys.


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Post subject: Re: Opinions needed on possible '68 Vibrolux Reverb Purchase
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:58 am
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I bought my first, and only, Fender amp about a year ago. It was one of the 65 DRRI Limited Editions. Mine is a Fudge Brownie but I think it is the same spec as the Wine Red.

I immediately liked the Fender tones but had some problems with microphonics in the Factory fitted tubes (Groove Tube branded JJ tubes in V1, V2, V4 and the power section). I decided to change all of the tubes that came with the amp and the tones are now even better. I now have Tung-Sol 12AX7 in V1 and V2, NOS JAN Philips 12AT7WC in V3, TAD 7025 WA in V4, TAD ECC83 WA in V5, NOS Mullard CV4024 in V6, Tung-Sol 6V6GT in V7 and V8 and a Tung-Sol 5AR4 in V9. I sometimes change the TAD in V4 for a new production Mullard 12AX7/ECC83. The power tubes are biased at about 21mA.

To be honest, I think the biggest change came from putting the Tung-Sol 6V6GT power tubes in place of the JJ 6V6S. I also use a Radial Twin City A/B/Y switch to change channels and also select the Normal and Vibrato channels together which gives a bigger boosted tone. There is good tube break-up from from about 4 on the volume control but for extra drive I use a Free The Tone MS-SOV overdrive and a Fredric Effects Golden Eagle (Klon clone).

Overall, I think it is a fantastic little amp and would recommend it without hesitation.


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Post subject: Re: Opinions needed on possible '68 Vibrolux Reverb Purchase
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:52 am
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Full Disclosure:
I am not a purist. There are many reasons, not the least of which is I can't afford to be; I also desire features and sounds that don't readily come from a stock, vintage device.

Because of this situation, I play a modded '62-reissue Stratocaster instead of an actual vintage 1962 Strat...I play it through a '63-reissue Vibroverb, instead of an actual vintage amplifier of some sort...and if a person is all about perfect, vintage specifications, don't even get me started on my Telecasters (or as one friend called them, my "Telebastards").

My first few tube amps were silverface models with master volume circuits. Of all the amps of Fender's long history, one of my favorites is the silverface, master volume Bassman Ten that I lamentably was forced to sell years ago.

It extends to other things, too--I put a '77 Mercury 302 cid motor with 351 Windsor heads in my 2-door hardtop 1964 Ford Falcon Futura, instead of the period-correct 260 cid V8. The 302 was cheaper, more readily available, and ultimately faster than that 260 would have been.

You should've seen the ridiculous things we did to our old Schwinns and Huffys--trying to make them look like our dad's chopped Harleys.

I digress.

Anyway, if a person desires (and can afford) a vintage amplifier, they should buy that amp...likewise for a vintage guitar, too. If they choose well and don't overpay, their instrument will actually appreciate in value, and they will be getting the best parts of Leo's legacy; the 1950s and 1960s Fender instruments.

It seems the OP has the means and circumstances to acquire a vintage Vibrolux amp such as they desire...good for them--they will be getting one of the best-sounding l, best-bang-for-the-buck (IMHO) amps of that era.

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Post subject: Re: Opinions needed on possible '68 Vibrolux Reverb Purchase
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:53 am
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However, as far as I can tell, nobody really answered his question about the '68 Custom Silverface amps.

I have played all of the '68 Custom amps, with the exception of the Twin Reverb model. I was especially impressed with the Princeton Reverb model--in fact, it's somewhere in the middle of my GAS List...in terms of portability, features, tone and price, I have a hard time finding fault in it.

Likewise, if I were in the market for a replacement or a companion for my 63RIVV (which I'm not), I would seriously consider the '68 Custom Vibrolux...similar wattage, nice looks, 2x10 speaker configuration, vaguely similar tone, and the presence of a tremolo/vibrato/whatever circuit (which is VERY important to me) make it an attractive alternative.

Will the '68 Custom amps be as durable as a vintage Fender amp from the Golden Age of Tweeds, Blondes, Brownfaces, Blackfaces and early Silverfaces?
No, probably not.
That type of craftsmanship doesn't exist in mass-produced items anymore...it's seldom produced in boutique items, IMHO.

Will they be as reliable?
Probably not, but time will tell...there haven't been horror stories like what we're heard about the early Hot Rod and Super Sport series, either, so there is some hope that they're well-made.

Will it be as serviceable or repairable?
No, it won't, due to the construction processes, using PCBs, etc...but they're a lot more serviceable than the disposable digital toys like the G-DEC, Cyber and Mustang series of amps that sully St. Leo's name.

Will it sound the same?
Definitely not...although, to be fair, it wasn't engineered to.

Is it a bad amp?
No.
For the money, I feel the '68 Custom line of amps are some of the best-sounding Fender amps in years...and from what I've read, players as diverse as Joe Bonnamassa and John 5 agree.

Time will tell if the '68 Customs are good (or maybe even, great) amps...when I bought my 63RIVV (twenty three years ago), several purists lamented the solid-state rectifier and the printed circuit board.

I didn't care--I got got the best amp I could afford, that performed well for both of instruments I played--guitar and blues harp.

Nowadays, many of those same purists sing the praises of my "Lesser" amp...but Fender ceased production because of poor sales...probably because the purists wouldn't at least begrudgingly give some praise to a good-looking, well-made, great-sounding tube amp that was reasonably priced.

History has proven that I made a wise choice.
Outside of re-tubing, it has only "failed" me once--the speakers blew after 9 years of heavy use. We'll have to see what happens to these devices in a couple of decades.

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Post subject: Re: Opinions needed on possible '68 Vibrolux Reverb Purchase
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:22 am
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Screamin Armadillo wrote:
Nowadays, many of those same purists sing the praises of my "Lesser" amp...but Fender ceased production because of poor sales...probably because the purists wouldn't at least begrudgingly give some praise to a good-looking, well-made, great-sounding tube amp that was reasonably priced.


There is some validity to this assertion but FMIC's decision to discontinue the '63 re-issue Vibroverb was based more on marketing data and the fact that the amp division decided to push the similar-in-specs Custom Vibrolux Reverb whose release closely coincided with that of the brownface Vibroverb. Personally I found the '63 re-issue to be the better sounding amp (at least in stock, as-issued trim) despite the "incorrect" solid-state rectifier. The CVR just never sounded good to me, even after hand-massaging the tube array, re-calibrated bias current, different speakers, etc.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Opinions needed on possible '68 Vibrolux Reverb Purchase
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:39 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
There is some validity to this assertion but FMIC's decision to discontinue the '63 re-issue Vibroverb was based more on marketing data and the fact that the amp division decided to push the similar-in-specs Custom Vibrolux Reverb whose release closely coincided with that of the brownface Vibroverb.

Yes, that is true, but I think some of that marketing data may have been colored by the light-but-loud damning of the differences between the '63-reissue and an actual 1963 Vibroverb (solid state rectifier, and slightly different tremolo circuit being the two largest targets).

I think some people expected a perfect re-creation of the original and focused on the changes rather than the product in whole.

I always found the people's assertion that it, "Didn't/wouldn't sound the same," to be humorous. Because honestly, with the super-low production numbers of the original Brown Tolex 1963 Vibroverb, how many people truly know what one sounds like?
There's not too many verifiable and documented recordings that we are sure were recorded with an original, unmolested 1963 Vibroverb.

It sounded like a Fender amp. That's good enough for me.

Also, people always point to Stevie Ray Vaughan's sound as a benchmark for the Vibroverb.
Well, SRV used many different amps, including the 1964 blackface Vibroverb, with the 1x15 speaker configuration and different circuit and the bright switches, etc....plus, his were further modified by Cesar Diaz to have (drum roll please) SOLID STATE RECTIFIERS!

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Last edited by Screamin Armadillo on Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:53 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Opinions needed on possible '68 Vibrolux Reverb Purchase
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:47 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Personally I found the '63 re-issue to be the better sounding amp (at least in stock, as-issued trim) despite the "incorrect" solid-state rectifier. The CVR just never sounded good to me, even after hand-massaging the tube array, re-calibrated bias current, different speakers, etc.

I agree whole-heartedly in your assessment of the pseudo-blackface CVR (Custom Vibrolux Reverb), but I'll go one step further...

The CVR was mis-engineered from the get-go. I never played through or heard one (hand-massaged, re-calibrated bias or otherwise) that didn't sound fizzy and weak.

They did accomplish one spectacular task: they made an amp that sounded tinny and muddy at the same time. It was a poor, poor replacement for the 63RIVV.

I'm not just saying that because I own, love, and have staked my claim with the Vibroverb--it's just my unbiased experience...actually, I should say, "Biased experience," because I loved the looks of the CVR (Blackface + white knobs= cool...) and hoped Fender dropped the Vibroverb for a worthy successor. They did not.

The '63-reissue Vibroverb was/is a great-sounding amp. The only thing that most users/owners were dissatisfied with were the reproduction Oxford-style speakers.

I have little or no experience with true vintage Oxfords, so I cannot speak to their performance, but the stock (reproduction) speakers were definitely the weak link--slightly flabby and easy to blow, the latter of which may have been a blessing in disguise, since most everyone (myself included) had to replace/upgrade the speakers at some point.

(...and yes, I did save the stock speakers, with the thought of re-coning them in case I have to return it to factory specs at some point.)

I am suitably impressed and pleasantly surprised by the '68 Custom Silverface Vibrolux Reverb. It sounds properly Fender-esque, albeit with a little less clean headroom than a vintage Vibrolux Reverb.

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