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Post subject: Re: Tone Master way too bright
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:10 pm
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First off thank you all so much for the input. It appears there is so much to consider and try. I'm hoping for the best tomorrow. I will definitely post an update as soon as we've done what we can.

And Arjay, I definitely appreciate the reality check and will definitely keep in mind that there still could be something not right with the amp as is, either malfunction or some sort of mod. The previous owner claimed to be the only owner and also claimed that the only mod done was a master volume on the clean channel supposedly done by Fender themselves. I've googled about this amp and this problem in particular a lot and there does appear to be a common theme about some of them behaving in this way. Maybe there were just some bad builds, or maybe some common component failure. I don't know at this point, but will keep notes to update on what we find. Whatever happens, it will be a journey for sure!

Thanks again everyone!!!!!

Dave


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Post subject: Re: Tone Master way too bright
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:01 pm
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Dmerch1969 wrote:
The previous owner claimed to be the only owner and also claimed that the only mod done was a master volume on the clean channel supposedly done by Fender themselves.

Please pardon my ignorance, but this claim by the original owner strikes me as odd...
I have never heard of such a modification performed by Fender themselves...a Fender-authorized or Fender-certified technician perhaps....
But a Fender Factory modification? I've never heard of such a thing.

Since I'm not super-familiar with this line of amps, maybe someone can educate me--were these a part of some type of Custom Shop instrument line, that a person could request or order certain modifications?

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Post subject: Re: Tone Master way too bright
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:56 pm
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MV mod on the Clean Channel seems odd.

:?:


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Post subject: Re: Tone Master way too bright
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:20 pm
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Screamin Armadillo wrote:
Since I'm not super-familiar with this line of amps, maybe someone can educate me--were these a part of some type of Custom Shop instrument line, that a person could request or order certain modifications?


The Tone Master was a product of Fender's now-defunct Custom Amp Shop which additionally produced the Dual Professional, the Vibro King, and the original tube-powered Rumble Bass. No "factory mods" were offered and I'm doubtful that any field mods were ever authorized or endorsed by FMIC.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Tone Master way too bright
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:14 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Screamin Armadillo wrote:
Since I'm not super-familiar with this line of amps, maybe someone can educate me--were these a part of some type of Custom Shop instrument line, that a person could request or order certain modifications?


The Tone Master was a product of Fender's now-defunct Custom Amp Shop which additionally produced the Dual Professional, the Vibro King, and the original tube-powered Rumble Bass. No "factory mods" were offered and I'm doubtful that any field mods were ever authorized or endorsed by FMIC.

Arjay

Since the supposition that Fender installed a Master Volume circuit seems to be an (how can we politely say it?) "inaccurate" statement by the supposed "one owner" (let's just call him the previous possessor), I would be concerned about what other modifications might have been done that are negatively affecting the tone of the device, as well as the acumen of the Modifying Technician.

This thing might need a "return to spec" going-over by a true expert such as Arjay or Bill (we miss you, Bluesky!), as opposed to a guesstimating enthusiast with a soldering gun (such as myself)...that's why I hire experts, personally.

I remember when these amps came out, and I seem to recall them sounding very rich, punchy and robust, not thin or overly bright at all.

However, I might be confusing the Tone Master with the Vibro King, which I played at the same time.

I was familiar enough with them to know they had some shared history, but was not aware they were a part of a Custom Amp Shop series. I just remember them being very pricey.

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Post subject: Re: Tone Master way too bright
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:39 pm
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I hope my suggestions weren't taken the wrong way! I was just suggesting a way to lightly/temporarily tame a 100W beast of an amp. I couldn't imagine playing it with out a full band in a football size field/arena. The Soul of Tone, in one part describes it as a 'bright" amp when played alone. The rest of the series as well as most of the talk about the early 90's amps from the custom shop really only highlights the Vibro-King. The Tone Master and the Duel Professional were discontinued in 2002.

Quote:
This thing might need a "return to spec"
+2 It had 5 iterations of the circuit between inception and 1997 and w/ owner mods having been made, no schematic will be accurate.


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Post subject: Re: Tone Master way too bright
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:57 am
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Well, that was a fun experiment.

Let me start by saying thanks again for all the input on this. Anything Information I've shared has been what the previous owner stated to me, who really knows for sure what the truth is. Sorry for starting a conspiracy about the master volume mod. Whoever did it, I can understand why, this thing was designed to be sounding its best at pretty loud volumes.

My tech and I sat down for quite a while comparing the schematic which may or may not have been completely accurate since I think one of you had said that there were many changes in the early productions of this amp. He seemed to think that it appeared to be pretty much as laid out in the schematic with no obvious mods other than the master volume on the clean channel.

So we started by playing around with the tone controls. This amp definitely responds much differently than any other Fender amp that I've owned. The tone controls are very sensitive and they seem to affect each other as well. We actually were able to dial in a nice chimney clean sound that wasn't overly tinny. The problem for me was that to do that the volume was very loud. I can't remember who quoted the Fender manual on this one, but that clearly states that the amp is designed for players who want arena type volumes. You were spot on, It ABSOLUTELY does this well. The master volume mod made this channel so cool to my ears because you could actually pull that back and turn up the volume on the front to get a nice breakup that wasn't ear splitting.

We had similar experiences with the gain channel, it sounded great when at very loud volumes. I found it fairly unFenderish tho, more like a Marshall. And again, so loud to sound good and punchy, and not fuzzy.

So I've decided to punt and leave it as is and move on having learned that the Tone Master is a great sounding amp, just not for me. It operates in a very non Fender way, at least compared to what I've owned from them over the last 30 or so years of playing (Red knob Dual Showman, Twin Amp -both evil iterations, SS60, SS22, Super Amp). I guess my ignorance about how different this amp is contributed to my sense of it being ridiculously bright. I can't remember at the moment which one of you mentioned rolling back the volume on my guitar, but man, this amp allows you to roll back to 3 or 4 and not get muddied hardly at all. Obviously the beefiness went away the more you rolled it back, but still clean and clear. Pretty neat.

I'm probably going to go back to the SS60. For my needs, the gain channel is decent at moderate volumes, and clean is pretty good too, and it has an f/x loop which I really liked.

Like I said, I enjoy trying out different Fender stuff in hopes of finding the absolutely prefect amp for me. The search goes on I guess though I'm not exactly sure what to try next. I think I'm running out of Fender tube amps with clean and gain channels.

Thanks again for all the ideas, inputs and opinions. Peace.


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