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Post subject: Bassbreaker 18/30 question
Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:04 pm
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I just received my Bassbreaker 18/30 from Musicians Friend. Anyone else order and receive this amp yet? I've been pleased with the clean headroom that this amp provides, but I find it to be very bright. I play a Strat and my treble setting is around 2. Is this normal?

So far, I'm not a huge fan of the overdrive. I use pedals to get all of my gain, so I'm very comfortable and familiar with the way they respond. I was previously using a Hot Rod Deluxe II and liked the way it took pedals. I'm wondering if I just don't like the difference between an EL84 based amp vs. the 6L6s in the Hot Rod Deluxe. I'm finding my overdrives (medium gain drives and higher gain distortion) to be fizzy and harsh. Any thoughts here?

Lastly, how do you bias this amp? What is the bias setting?

Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Bassbreaker 18/30 question
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:30 am
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I can't find schematic

Bias ; IMO not for a unqualified person .

What bias, how to adjust ? Like any tubes amp .

1- Check plate voltage
2- Adjust Cathode current to 60 to 70 % tubes dissipation


Amp is bright ; because a cold bias ( ? ) like many Fender amps ? Or brand of tubes or circuit desing or speaker ......


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Post subject: Re: Bassbreaker 18/30 question
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:00 am
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stratele52 wrote:
Amp is bright ; because a cold bias ( ? ) like many Fender amps ? Or brand of tubes or circuit desing or speaker ......


+1

Or perhaps it's simply the nature of EL84 tubes......

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Bassbreaker 18/30 question
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:03 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
stratele52 wrote:
Amp is bright ; because a cold bias ( ? ) like many Fender amps ? Or brand of tubes or circuit desing or speaker ......


+1

Or perhaps it's simply the nature of EL84 tubes......

Arjay


You may be right , but I would check for a too cold bias first


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Post subject: Re: Bassbreaker 18/30 question
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:23 am
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stratele52 wrote:
I can't find schematic

Bias ; IMO not for a unqualified person .

What bias, how to adjust ? Like any tubes amp .

1- Check plate voltage
2- Adjust Cathode current to 60 to 70 % tubes dissipation


Amp is bright ; because a cold bias ( ? ) like many Fender amps ? Or brand of tubes or circuit desing or speaker ......


Thanks for the response. I am not planning on attempting the bias on my own, I was just curious how to do it and if they made it any easier on these new amps. I'm guessing no.

The tubes are GTs. I've played them before in stock Fender amps and they have been fine. I don't think tubes are the issue.

The speakers are brand new (2 x 12) and have hardly been broken in. I've changed speakers a few times in other amps, so I know new speakers need to be worked a bit before they sound good. Perhaps that is part of the problem.

I'll start with having the amp biased and see if that helps. Any other thoughts? Any other owners of this amp yet?


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Post subject: Re: Bassbreaker 18/30 question
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:38 am
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SmallPlanes wrote:
stratele52 wrote:
I can't find schematic

Bias ; IMO not for a unqualified person .

What bias, how to adjust ? Like any tubes amp .

1- Check plate voltage
2- Adjust Cathode current to 60 to 70 % tubes dissipation


Amp is bright ; because a cold bias ( ? ) like many Fender amps ? Or brand of tubes or circuit desing or speaker ......


Thanks for the response. I am not planning on attempting the bias on my own, I was just curious how to do it and if they made it any easier on these new amps. I'm guessing no.
No for most amps

The tubes are GTs. I've played them before in stock Fender amps and they have been fine. I don't think tubes are the issue.
GT's don't make tubes , they buy from many manufacturer . Which brand was the GT you had and wich brand are those in Bassbreaker ?

The speakers are brand new (2 x 12) and have hardly been broken in. I've changed speakers a few times in other amps, so I know new speakers need to be worked a bit before they sound good. Perhaps that is part of the problem.

I'll start with having the amp biased and see if that helps. Any other thoughts?
See a qualified tech . if not , you'll loose your money and you will not have the best bias .

Any other owners of this amp yet?


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Post subject: Re: Bassbreaker 18/30 question
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:29 am
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From Sweetwater ad, seems the amp has the EL84s in a Class "A" style output. Prolly, cathode-bias --- so no easy way to change the idle bias settings. Owner maybe stuck with getting toughest EL84 tubes, if the bias is very "hot." Such as Russian mil spec'ed EL84M.

Interesting, how this whole line of Fender amps seems to be based on vintage Vox and Marshall amps.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BassB1830C


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Post subject: Re: Bassbreaker 18/30 question
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:28 am
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
From Sweetwater ad, seems the amp has the EL84s in a Class "A" style output. Prolly, cathode-bias --- so no easy way to change the idle bias settings. Owner maybe stuck with getting toughest EL84 tubes, if the bias is very "hot." Such as Russian mil spec'ed EL84M.

Interesting, how this whole line of Fender amps seems to be based on vintage Vox and Marshall amps.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BassB1830C



If anything, feels like the amp is biased too cold (harsh/fizzy overdrive, extremely bright). Thoughts?


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Post subject: Re: Bassbreaker 18/30 question
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:53 am
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
From Sweetwater ad, seems the amp has the EL84s in a Class "A" style output. Prolly, cathode-bias --- so no easy way to change the idle bias settings. Owner maybe stuck with getting toughest EL84 tubes, if the bias is very "hot." Such as Russian mil spec'ed EL84M.

Interesting, how this whole line of Fender amps seems to be based on vintage Vox and Marshall amps.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BassB1830C


Real class A work at very very hot bias . But did Fender bias these amps in Class A ?

Change bias , only one resistor to change like most AB class amps wich most of the time don't have pots .


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Post subject: Re: Bassbreaker 18/30 question
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:55 am
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If anything, feels like the amp is biased too cold (harsh/fizzy overdrive, extremely bright). Thoughts?

Change EL84's cathode resistor to a better value if reading of bias is not the best one .


Last edited by stratele52 on Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Bassbreaker 18/30 question
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:55 am
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How many hours are on the amp? Could need some more breaking in. Perhaps a good 5751 or even 12AY7, in the input stage, may soften the harshness.

The tone (or lack of it) could be the EL84 used. Some Russian made EL84 are very sterile. Do you know anyone with Ei or Tungsram EL84? 1970-80s era Tesla EL84? These tube have more of the "British warmth" of the original (and almost extinct) Mullard EL84 (Philips).

Quads of these tube are $$$. So best to try them out, first.

Good luck, on your amp.


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Post subject: Re: Bassbreaker 18/30 question
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:40 am
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
How many hours are on the amp? Could need some more breaking in. Perhaps a good 5751 or even 12AY7, in the input stage, may soften the harshness.


+1, with a special emphasis on "good".

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Bassbreaker 18/30 question
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:41 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
How many hours are on the amp? Could need some more breaking in. Perhaps a good 5751 or even 12AY7, in the input stage, may soften the harshness.

The tone (or lack of it) could be the EL84 used. Some Russian made EL84 are very sterile. Do you know anyone with Ei or Tungsram EL84? 1970-80s era Tesla EL84? These tube have more of the "British warmth" of the original (and almost extinct) Mullard EL84 (Philips).

Quads of these tube are $$$. So best to try them out, first.

Good luck, on your amp.


Probably about 15 hours on the amp. Speakers still sound stiff. I'll look into changing the EL84s.


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Post subject: Re: Bassbreaker 18/30 question
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:30 pm
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You could try JJ EL84 tubes. Some ppl think they are a little too warm and syrupy. At least, relatively cheap.

Vintage "Philips/Mullard tone" is prolly what you are after.


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Post subject: Re: Bassbreaker 18/30 question
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:42 am
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More chance to get a warmer sound with vintage preamp tubes than power amp tubes .


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