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Post subject: '65 Deluxe Re-tube dilema
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:21 pm
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Hi all, I am pretty new to the Fender forums and relatively new to tube amps as well.

Last year I lucked into a sweet deal on gorgeous 65 Deluxe Reverb. I loved the way it sounded and the guy gave me very good deal on it as well.

Later I found a bit of a conundrum. Years ago, the amp was hot rodded with Groove Tube 6V6-HDs. The note that came with the amp had instructions on biasing the amp for those particular tubes. A little digging around on the internet leads me to find out that those 6V6-HDs are low powered Sovtek 6L6s. I don't know the low powered part to be true or false but I do know that it might be a challenge to find those exact tubes for spares or replacements. I realize I most likely will have to re-bias the amp no matter what I use for replacements.

Tonight I was playing through the Deluxe and it started breaking up way early on the volume pedal so I took a look at the amp and found one of the tubes was stone cold, so I pulled the cover off so I cold watch the tubes warm up and I saw the rectifier (AR54) sparking and flashing so I just powered it down and headed over here to consult with the pros.

Since I am going to replace that rectifier I want to solve the power tube issue while the amp is down. I am curious to hear some thoughts on re-tubing this amp.

I really like the way it sounds now. It seems to have quite a bit more headroom than I've been told Deluxes should have. I normally run the amp around 5 - 6 and use a volume pedal. It normally never breaks up.

Any suggestions on a tube replacement path from the vintage amp gurus?

Thanks in advance.


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Post subject: Re: '65 Deluxe Re-tube dilema
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:35 pm
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I think the JJ 6V6S is built to the hardier 6L6 specs. It may be similar in performance to the GT 6V6HD. I don't personally care for JJ's but they are popular. As for a replacement rectifier (should it turn out that you need one), I'd go with an NOS type -- preferably a Mullard or an Amperex. You'll pay handsomely for either tube though so be prepared.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: '65 Deluxe Re-tube dilema
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:40 pm
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" I saw the rectifier (AR54) sparking and flashing so I just powered it down and headed over here to consult with the pros. "

Before you buy any new rectifier, have your main PSU caps checked (and prolly changed). Rectifier flash-over, esp in OEM tubes, is almost always bad caps. I'd change the main power rail dropping resistors, too. Use good quality 2 or 5-watt rated metal oxide or wire-wound types. F&T 22mfd/500VDC caps.

As for rectifier tubes --- I agree 100% with Arjay. There are NO new issued 5AR4/GZ34 made which match the durability and reliability of NOS. You may want to look for NOS US made 5AR4. Sylvania and GE made as good rectifiers as the famous British Mullard. And a bit cheaper.

As a good alternative, the Deluxe can use a 5U4GB. The silverface Deluxe Reverbs used 5U4GB's. And they have the same power tranny: 125P23B. The best 5U4GB (and there are many good ones), IMHO... is the blackplate Tungsol 5U4GB or the mil spec US Navy, CBS-Hytron JAN-CHY 5U4GB. However, NOS RCA, Sylvania, GE made 5U4GB are way better than today's 5AR4 or 5U4GB.

Rebias the amp, whenever you change any rectifier or output tube. Rebias after a cap job.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-5U4GB- ... 339d0b303a

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5U4GB-CBS-Hytro ... 3cf25a154f


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Post subject: Re: '65 Deluxe Re-tube dilema
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:39 am
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The JJ 6V6 sounds more like a 6L6, and for me, just doesn't do this amp justice. I use GT 6V6 R (EH), and biased properly (23 mA to 24 mA at 430 VDC Plate), give this amp a very sweet, classic DR sound. Some people want their DR to have a beefy clean sound and they like the JJ, but I don't, and the sound is too muddy at volume when playing hard. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: '65 Deluxe Re-tube dilema
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:14 am
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Hey Thanks Guys! That's terrific information. Sounds like a job for a pro tech. For the sake of getting it done right and getting it done it time for some shows I am scheduling a session with my amp guy. He's about 100 miles away.

One of my fears with a tube changes is that I will lose the bite that this amp has. If I really dig in on the strings it has this wonderful sort of compression feel to it. And like I said, it's clean as whistle.

It is always mic'd so I can keep it relatively volume and still get that cool bite out of it. My employers and band mates really like that.


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Post subject: Re: '65 Deluxe Re-tube dilema
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:48 am
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Good that you are having the amp looked at. Must take a look at those caps under the doghouse. They maybe old. Possibly original. You would not want to gig with an amp that has tired main filter caps. You could end up doing quite a bit of damage to the unit.

Photo of main PSU caps (under doghouse). Original, old leaky, "pimpled" Astrons. Replacement needed.


Image

As for 6V6GT tubes and your preferences... Get either Sylvania or original US made Tungsol clear glass 6V6GTA. These two have the cleanest, clearest, powerful tone of any 6V6GT I've used. No affiliation to sellers. Posted photo links for ID sake.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-TUNGSOL-6v6 ... 4d2d198933

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Matched-Pai ... 234a386d82


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Post subject: Re: '65 Deluxe Re-tube dilema
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:47 am
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Thanks BMW2002Ti, Dave has recommended the Tung-Sol to me as well. Your help is greatly appreciated. Thanks a Ton!


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Post subject: Re: '65 Deluxe Re-tube dilema
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:50 pm
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Update and resolution. I just got back from Pinedale with the DR. It was the coolest thing. Dave at Dave's Electronics took the amp right in invited me in to BS and watch the whole thing unfold. Got rid of the Groove Tubes HDs and replaced them with Raytheon 6V6-GTAs. Replaced the bad rectifier with a GZ32 and replaced the (original) caps. He spent a good deal of time talking about biasing the amp and showing me on a scope (and meter) the fine points of biasing. Just got it home and spent an hour drooling on my guitar. That amp is so effen sweet it's almost sickening.


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Post subject: Re: '65 Deluxe Re-tube dilema
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:03 pm
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Good news!

BTW... I hope you meant GZ34 and not GZ32. GZ32 (5V4GA) is rated less than the GZ34 (5AR4). 175mA output versus 250mA for the GZ34. It may work ok with the two 6V6GT output. Keep an eye on it.

Is the GZ32 a Mullard coke bottle? Those are very good tubes.


http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/ ... -/$_57.JPG


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Post subject: Re: '65 Deluxe Re-tube dilema
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:21 pm
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My bad, the rectifier is an RCA 5AR4. We kicked around a lot of parts and numbers, I got them twisted up somewhere. The new caps are sprague by the way. Regardless, I am still staggered by the tone now. My wife even noticed. (It could have been the volume)


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Post subject: Re: '65 Deluxe Re-tube dilema
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:20 pm
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You've got some of the finest glass ever made in that amp now -- I'm not surprised in the least that you're getting such a heavenly tone. Take care of those tubes; replacing them would not be a task prone to brevity.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: '65 Deluxe Re-tube dilema
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:56 pm
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" The rectifier is an RCA 5AR4. "

You have a photo of this rectifier? RCA imported & relabeled a lot Mullard made GZ34, during the 1960-70's. AFAIK, RCA never made a GZ34/5AR4. I have also seen RCA labeled GE-made 5AR4's.



Look like this one? A British Mullard:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/ ... X/$_57.JPG


Or this, GE-made 5AR4:

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/d ... +-+USA.jpg

Both are excellent tubes, which will prolly outlast both of us. :D

The yellow-labeled Raytheon 6V6GT and the Holy grey-glass JAN-CRP 6V6GTY are two of the best tubes ever made. Tone-wise and long life. The yellow-labeled ones were prolly made in Japan, under license to Raytheon. Hitachi, I believe. They made many of the best tubes of the 1960's. The yellow-labeled Raytheon 12AX7A are highly sought after. Tone and quiet long life.

Good luck with your amp and the gigs. You have a one fantastic great tone-generator.


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Post subject: Re: '65 Deluxe Re-tube dilema
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:57 pm
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Retroverbial. Thank you for supplying that term. 'Heavenly' Up till now I was at a loss for how to describe the tone. Heavenly fits nicely. It's ridiculously quiet. I have older Bill Lawrence humbuckers on the guitar that I primarily use with DR. I put Eminence 12" 8ohm in it (in Dec 2014) and I have about 30 hours of stage work with that speaker. I could feel the speaker settling in nicely right before the rectifier gave out. Now, the whole rig is magical.

I'll pull that rectifier tonight (if I can tear myself away from playing it) and check it out against those pics BMW2002Ti.

That speaker is actually from Telonics who has them oem'd from Eminence to emulate a D-120f. It's close.


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Post subject: Re: '65 Deluxe Re-tube dilema
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:46 pm
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Play the amp. I'm sure you have a very good rectifier in it. Seems that your tech knows his stuff. Esp tubes.

A good rectifier is one that you can forget about. Always works. Good ones last forever --- it seems.

:D


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