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Post subject: Help Me Date My Silverface Fender Princeton Reverb
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:11 am
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Last night I bought a silverface Princeton Reverb off of craigslist. It was represented to be an early 1970s amp, but after doing research, I believe it to be a 1967 silverface.
Some of the amp's tell tale markings include:
First, it has the AA764 circuit according to the stamp on the tube chart, which according to this website dates it to 1964-67: http://fenderguru.com/amps/princeton-reverb. Per that website, the AA764 circuit is a blackface circuit, which makes me think this is a blackface amp internally, but a silverface cosmetically. Weird, huh?
Second, it is badged "Princeton Reverb-Amp", and not a "Princeton Reverb".
Third, it has the Fender logo with the tail on the grill cloth.
Fourth the trannies and speaker codes date to either 1966 or 1976. Also, the speaker is a C8306, which according to what I've read on this forum was a C10 speaker installed in Princeton Reverbs in 1965-66.
Fifth, it has the blackface grill cloth, not the silverface grill cloth with the blue threads intertwined.
Sixth, it has a Jensen (not an Oxford) speaker.
Seventh, it does not have the chrome edge around the grill cloth.
Eighth, the 'Date Code' stamped on the tube chart appears to be either "QD" or "OD".
Thoughts? Ideas?
The amp is mint. It was owned by an older lady who used it as a PA system when she called out the letters/numbers at the Bingo games she ran. True story. A gentleman bought the amp from her (he believed she was the original owner) in 1981, played it a few times, and then put it in his closet. It's a true time capsule, and flawless.
I'd appreciate any input from folks knowledgable about this stuff...


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Post subject: Re: Help Me Date My Silverface Fender Princeton Reverb
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:19 am
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timwalton wrote:
Last night I bought a silverface Princeton Reverb off of craigslist. It was represented to be an early 1970s amp, but after doing research, I believe it to be a 1967 silverface.
Some of the amp's tell tale markings include:
First, it has the AA764 circuit according to the stamp on the tube chart, This is not reliable , tubes chat is sometimes a wrong one

which according to this website dates it to 1964-67: http://fenderguru.com/amps/princeton-reverb. Per that website, the AA764 circuit is a blackface circuit, which makes me think this is a blackface amp internally, but a silverface cosmetically. Weird, huh?
Second, it is badged "Princeton Reverb-Amp", and not a "Princeton Reverb".
Third, it has the Fender logo with the tail on the grill cloth.
Fourth the trannies and speaker codes date to either 1966 or 1976. Also, the speaker is a C8306, which according to what I've read on this forum was a C10 speaker installed in Princeton Reverbs in 1965-66.

What about pots date code ?

Fifth, it has the blackface grill cloth, not the silverface grill cloth with the blue threads intertwined.
Look not original

Sixth, it has a Jensen (not an Oxford) speaker.
Seventh, it does not have the chrome edge around the grill cloth.
Chrome edge is only for first years IMO

Eighth, the 'Date Code' stamped on the tube chart appears to be either "QD" or "OD".
Thoughts? Ideas?

Show some good pictures please, inside the amp too , the circuit board ,
The amp is mint. It was owned by an older lady who used it as a PA system when she called out the letters/numbers at the Bingo games she ran. True story. A gentleman bought the amp from her (he believed she was the original owner) in 1981, played it a few times, and then put it in his closet. It's a true time capsule, and flawless.
I'd appreciate any input from folks knowledgable about this stuff...


Congrat it look a great amp


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Post subject: Re: Help Me Date My Silverface Fender Princeton Reverb
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:13 am
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timwalton wrote:
Last night I bought a silverface Princeton Reverb off of craigslist. It was represented to be an early 1970s amp, but after doing research, I believe it to be a 1967 silverface.
Some of the amp's tell tale markings include:
First, it has the AA764 circuit according to the stamp on the tube chart, which according to this website dates it to 1964-67: http://fenderguru.com/amps/princeton-reverb. Per that website, the AA764 circuit is a blackface circuit, which makes me think this is a blackface amp internally, but a silverface cosmetically. Weird, huh?
Second, it is badged "Princeton Reverb-Amp", and not a "Princeton Reverb".
Third, it has the Fender logo with the tail on the grill cloth.
Fourth the trannies and speaker codes date to either 1966 or 1976. Also, the speaker is a C8306, which according to what I've read on this forum was a C10 speaker installed in Princeton Reverbs in 1965-66.
Fifth, it has the blackface grill cloth, not the silverface grill cloth with the blue threads intertwined.
Sixth, it has a Jensen (not an Oxford) speaker.
Seventh, it does not have the chrome edge around the grill cloth.
Eighth, the 'Date Code' stamped on the tube chart appears to be either "QD" or "OD".
Thoughts? Ideas?
The amp is mint. It was owned by an older lady who used it as a PA system when she called out the letters/numbers at the Bingo games she ran. True story. A gentleman bought the amp from her (he believed she was the original owner) in 1981, played it a few times, and then put it in his closet. It's a true time capsule, and flawless.
I'd appreciate any input from folks knowledgable about this stuff...


It could well be a '67. 1967 was a cutover year for Fender (CBS). Many amps were produced both in Blackface and Silverface trim that year. But remember, all amps produced in '67 whether they had Black or Silver faceplates had Blackface circuitry.

My '67 Deluxe was made in January, '67 (date code QA) and is an AB763 Blackface amp (this despite most sources stating Deluxe production ceased in '66). The amp was discontinued from the model line (forever) in March '67. It is one of the last 400 Deluxe Amps produced.

Image

What is the Serial (or chassis) number on the amp? The Serial #s for '67 Silverface PRs ran A18500 to A19500.

The tailless logo appeared in 1973, but the tailed logo also appears on many '73 amps (as existing inventories were used up).

It is possible that the amp originally came with the non-edged Wheat color Grillcloth, but I doubt it. It would be the first transitional amp I've heard of to combine a Blackface Grill with a Silver faceplate. I suspect instead, that the Baffle, or the Grillcloth was changed at one point. The Jensen speaker is also likely an upgrade, possibly came with the 'new' baffle.

I suspect that it is a '67 that has been modded. It's an 'oddity' rather than a rarity.

It has an unsubstantiated, yet charming, story about a Lady Bingo Caller that likely bolstered the asking price and/or helped the Amp to sell more quickly, nothing more. Such is the stuff of many Urban Legends.

There are still some examples of original NOS Silver/Blue grillcloth out there. If it were me, and I was concerned over the value of the amp, I would find some and put the proper cloth on it while I still could.

Just enjoy the amp. I highly doubt that you've accidently discovered Fender's version of Captain Cook's Lost Treasure.

I own a pristine '73 PR and I think it's the best Amp I own, and I own 4 Vintage Fender Amps (2 BF and 2 SF).

Image

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: Help Me Date My Silverface Fender Princeton Reverb
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:26 am
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Hmmm. Can't figure out how to post pics. Is it possible to upload pics to this forum? Or do the pics need to be hosted somewhere?
I honestly doubt that the amp has been modified. The speaker appears to be correct for a '67, the tube chart is stamped "QD" as best I can tell, and honestly, I believed the seller's story that he bought the amp from a bingo lady. The seller wasn't very sophisticated about dating the amp- he relied mainly on the Fender logo on the grill cloth, and he wasn't knowledgeable about things like tranny codes or speaker codes or Tube Chart codes.
I can't find a serial number stamped onto the chassis, but there is a number etched into the chassis- it's either 3141462, or B141462. If I can figure out how to post pics I'll do so.
Help?
This is a nice addition to my amp collection. My other amps-
1954 Fender Deluxe (Tweed)
1959 Fender Deluxe (Tweed)
1965 Fender Deluxe Reverb (Blackface)
1962 (I think) Fender Deluxe (Brownface)
1990s Victoria BandMaster Tweed clone (3 10" speakers)
Early 1970's Fender Silverface MusicMaster Bass
1960s era Gibson Hawk
Fender 75 that someone gave me- don't know the year.


Last edited by timwalton on Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:36 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Help Me Date My Silverface Fender Princeton Reverb
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:29 am
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Photos how to post ;


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=52777&hilit=Nutter%27s+guide


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Post subject: Re: Help Me Date My Silverface Fender Princeton Reverb
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:33 am
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timwalton wrote:
Hmmm. Can't figure out how to post pics. Is it possible to upload pics to this forum?
Or do the pics need to be hosted somewhere? Yes


I honestly doubt that the amp has been modified. .

Silverface amp with Blackface grill : original ?

?


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Post subject: Re: Help Me Date My Silverface Fender Princeton Reverb
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:57 am
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http://s79.photobucket.com/user/timwalton/media/PRFront_1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=5
http://s79.photobucket.com/user/timwalton/media/PRTubeChart_1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3
http://s79.photobucket.com/user/timwalton/media/PRSpeakercode_1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2


Can't figure out how to post the images, but here are links to the pics I've taken.
Thanks to all for your help.


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Post subject: Re: Help Me Date My Silverface Fender Princeton Reverb
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:05 am
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http://s79.photobucket.com/user/timwalton/media/PRBack_1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=4
http://s79.photobucket.com/user/timwalton/media/PRSpeaker_1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1
http://s79.photobucket.com/user/timwalton/media/PRSeialnumber_1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

3 more pics


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Post subject: Re: Help Me Date My Silverface Fender Princeton Reverb
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:19 am
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Easy ;
choose one photo, clic on IMG , copy on Fender forum answer window


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Post subject: Re: Help Me Date My Silverface Fender Princeton Reverb
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:21 am
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Did you remove upper back panel to see the serial number on chassis ?


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Post subject: Re: Help Me Date My Silverface Fender Princeton Reverb
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:17 pm
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The tube chart indicates a build date of April 1967 and I believe it to be correct. The lack of polished beauty washers beneath the input jacks tells me that a previous owner swapped out the original blackface front panel for that of a 1968 silverface model.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Help Me Date My Silverface Fender Princeton Reverb
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:35 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
The lack of polished beauty washers beneath the input jacks tells me that a previous owner swapped out the original blackface front panel for that of a 1968 silverface model.

Arjay


You impressed me by your observation :o
Did you mean it is a blackface amp ? Or it is was a Silverface with front damaged panel ?

Or previous owner replace inputs jacks ?


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Post subject: Re: Help Me Date My Silverface Fender Princeton Reverb
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:00 pm
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The vertical divide lines on the faceplate make it (the faceplate) a '67 to early '69 when these lines were dropped.

This leads to further speculation that perhaps just the faceplate was replaced and it was originally a Blackface Amp.

Very few of the Silverface amps were date-coded w/ ink stamps. And that Tube Chart looks suspicious, there is virtually no sign that it was ever subjected to the heat environment of a working amp. Every Tube Chart I've seen is yellowed and brittle from the heat.

That speaker is an original, Fender installed, Jensen. Apparently not all PRs of the era were Oxford equipped from the factory. The model code (not Mfgr. Date Code which would start with 220) of 023010 C8306 indicates that it is a Jensen C10N which Fender used in some Vibrolux and PRs in '66 and '67 only. I did read somewhere (though only 1 source) that this may have been something you could special-order through the Dealer.

There are too many inconsistencies to accept that this is an unmodified amp. I believe that either the Faceplate was replaced or the grillcloth was. Neither of these would have been sacrilege back in the day.

Again, just an oddity, not a rarity. But certainly not a one-owner untouched amp.

As I said, just enjoy it.

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: Help Me Date My Silverface Fender Princeton Reverb
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:02 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
The tube chart indicates a build date of April 1967 and I believe it to be correct. The lack of polished beauty washers beneath the input jacks tells me that a previous owner swapped out the original blackface front panel for that of a 1968 silverface model.

Arjay


+1

Good Eye there Roger... :wink:

cheers!

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'11 FSR Am. Vtg. Ltd. Ed. CAR '57 Stratocaster (SN# LE02639)
'14 American Deluxe Ash Stratocaster
'12 Telebration Empress Telecaster
'99 Deluxe Nashville Telecaster
'12 FSR Telecaster HH
'10 Heritage H-535
'99 Martin DC-1E
'13 Lanikai Tenor Ukulele


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Post subject: Re: Help Me Date My Silverface Fender Princeton Reverb
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:14 pm
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Lightnin MN wrote:
T And that Tube Chart looks suspicious, there is virtually no sign that it was ever subjected to the heat environment of a working amp. Every Tube Chart I've seen is yellowed and brittle from the heat.

I see some sign of hear or dirt but all pictures are poor


As I said, just enjoy it.

cheers!


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