It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:19 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Post subject: information on Fender 140 (1980) needed
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:29 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:53 pm
Posts: 15
I recently got hold of a Fender 140 head which needs a bit of re-work here and there.
It seems as though the head shell has been tampered with a bit since there are screw holes inside the box where no screw holes are needed and there's a trillion of staples that have been used on the inside which I find hard to imagine were original ...

Since information on that particular amp is next to impossible to find, does anyone know how it looked like when it came out of the factory?

- was the grill cloth black or grey ? (found images of both)
- did the grill board come with a metal frame or not ? (found images of both)
- was the grill board attached simply using velcro strips ?

- what kind of tubes are those:

http://www.emerald-green.de/images/DSC05675.jpg

http://www.emerald-green.de/images/DSC05676.jpg

http://www.emerald-green.de/images/DSC05677.jpg

according to the original schematics there should be four 6L6GC in there ...
unfortunately there's nothing whatsoever on those tubes that indicates what they are
or where they come from ... any ideas anyone ?

- alltogether there are those four 6L6GC amp tubes in there, and for preamp two 7025,
and three 12AT7 ...
in case, any of those fail (haven't tested them yet) are those available somewhere as
new old ones or should I simply replace them with new ones ?

Any information on that amp is highly appreciated ... thanks a lot.


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: information on Fender 140 (1980) needed
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:42 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:10 pm
Posts: 5646
Location: Gateway to the West
Not sure about all your questions, but a good portion of that info lies here...

http://ampwares.com/?s=140

/r

T2

_________________
-----------------------------------------------------------
What time is it? It's Fender Time.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: information on Fender 140 (1980) needed
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:38 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:53 pm
Posts: 15
T2Stratman wrote:
Not sure about all your questions, but a good portion of that info lies here...

http://ampwares.com/?s=140

/r

T2


Thanks for your reply ... came across that site already ... thing is, they describe what they see but not what it was in its original state ... e.g. they say the amp uses 12AX7 preamp tubes ... the schematics, however, say 12AT7 tubes were used ... it doesn't make a great deal of difference except for the greater gain of the 12AX7 ...
but what I'm after is any information on how that head came really out of the factory ...


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: information on Fender 140 (1980) needed
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:55 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:10 pm
Posts: 5646
Location: Gateway to the West
Well according to "The Fender Amp" by John Morrish, the 140 came from the factory with 4x7025, 2x12AT7, and 4x6L6's with an output of 135 watts. This series of amps were meant to compete with the Mesa Boogies, but maintain Fenders clean tone too. Lots of features and I think the main reason you don't find much info on these, is due to the new management team being brought in and killing these amps and enter the Rivera Era of Fender amps. They just weren't around long enough to have lots of these produced...lack of sales from the amps was part of the reason for new management at Fender, so they didn't make many of these amps and didn't get the chance to put much advertising out on them.

T2

_________________
-----------------------------------------------------------
What time is it? It's Fender Time.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: information on Fender 140 (1980) needed
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:46 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:53 pm
Posts: 15
T2Stratman wrote:
Well according to "The Fender Amp" by John Morrish, the 140 came from the factory with 4x7025, 2x12AT7, and 4x6L6's with an output of 135 watts. This series of amps were meant to compete with the Mesa Boogies, but maintain Fenders clean tone too. Lots of features and I think the main reason you don't find much info on these, is due to the new management team being brought in and killing these amps and enter the Rivera Era of Fender amps. They just weren't around long enough to have lots of these produced...lack of sales from the amps was part of the reason for new management at Fender, so they didn't make many of these amps and didn't get the chance to put much advertising out on them.

T2


yeah, I know ... born in 1980, died in 1980 ... some say production was too expensive to really be competitive ...
in the end, in terms of functionality, it doesn't really matter whether the grill cloth was black or grey or whether the grill board sat in a metal frame etc ... but to me it's kinda like with an old car - it may run perfectly well but if you can get hold of that last most insignificant handle, knob, or cover that they used on the original, it just makes you smile ...
was just hoping that, if nowhere else, at least here someone might have had some reliable information on the original design ...

nevertheless, thanks a lot for the effort ... highly appreciated ...


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: information on Fender 140 (1980) needed
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:24 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:10 pm
Posts: 5646
Location: Gateway to the West
IIRC...the 140's when they first came out had the black grill cloth with the silver surround, just like the Super Twin Reverbs. I think the reason you see some on-line with silver is because it was changed out by folks wanting that look or lack of the black cloth when it got torn or worn.

I googled it for an hour or so and you are correct, not much info beyond what we have already passed on about them. Let us know if you find anything more on em, and a photo or two wouldn't hurt either.

T2

_________________
-----------------------------------------------------------
What time is it? It's Fender Time.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: information on Fender 140 (1980) needed
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:36 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:53 pm
Posts: 15
guess I have already seen just about anything that's available online ... spent a couple of days searching ... nothing that's really enlightening beyond of what we already know ...

so here's a few photos of how mine looks at the moment ...
(I'm posting links only so that the page doesn't take ages to load)

- the schematics (note: there's only 7025, 12AT7, and 6L6GC in there)
http://www.emerald-green.de/images/fender-140-schem.jpg

- grill
http://www.emerald-green.de/images/fend ... ll_001.jpg

- and how it was attached
(on 2nd thought, it does make sense to attach it that way cos you can't screw it to the
shell because of the cloth ... but did they really use velcro strips in the 80s?)
http://www.emerald-green.de/images/fend ... nt_001.jpg

- headshell w/o tolex
fender140_headshell_001.jpg

- headshell w/o tolex
fender140_headshell_003.jpg

- headshell w/o tolex
fender140_headshell_004.jpg

- headshell sanded (note: the staples used to attached the board behind the front)
fender140_headshell_009.jpg

- headshell sanded
fender140_headshell_010.jpg

- headshell sanded
fender140_headshell_013.jpg

- headshell sanded (staples again)
fender140_headshell_018.jpg

- headshell bottom
fender140_headshell_023.jpg

- headshell bottom
fender140_headshell_024.jpg

- the amp
fender140_tubes_001.jpg

- the amp
fender140_tubes_002.jpg

- the amp inside
fender140_wiring_001.jpg


So, the headshell definitely needs some restauration work ... I will probably leave the
staples untouched cos if I were to remove them, I probably would have to replace the
entire board anyway ...

At first glance the electronics and wiring seem to be original - haven't checked in
detail yet, tough ... I'm not really an expert as far as reading schematics is concerned ...
so to understand and translate the writing to what I find in the amp will take some time ... but I'll get there ...

I have not checked on the preamp tubes yet to see what they are ... what puzzles me a bit is the amp tubes cos I can't possibly tell what those are ... there's absolutely nothing printed on them ... if they still work, fine, if not, I'll probably go and find some new old 6L6GC and see how they sound ...

On the cosmetics side I will stick to the black grill cloth and perhaps add that metal frame to the grill board ...

And that's about it ... I will surely add a few photos as I progress with work ...

Matt

p/s sorry about the incomplete links but I'm only allowed to post a max of 3 urls ... so simply put the domain and directory of the first 3 links in front the the filenames of the rest ...


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: information on Fender 140 (1980) needed
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:35 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:10 pm
Posts: 5646
Location: Gateway to the West
I couldn't figure out your pics past the first three. Might be easier to use something like photobucket to host the pics and then copy them with the IMG code into your posts.

Yes they did use Velcro on the grill cloth panels...started that in the early 70's. All the staples on the grill cloth is correct as is the tailless logo with the "Made in USA" below it.

Enjoy the rebuild and do post some pics as you progress.

T2

_________________
-----------------------------------------------------------
What time is it? It's Fender Time.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: information on Fender 140 (1980) needed
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:22 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 6544
T2 and Emerald, this site only allows three http://... posts per entry box. Whether links ( ie: to schematics or youtube links) or photos.

Preview mode allows you to see what the post will look like, before posting.

HTH! :mrgreen:


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: information on Fender 140 (1980) needed
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:47 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:53 pm
Posts: 15
for the photos past the first three you only have to put the url
http://www.emerald-green.de/images/
infront of the filename ... just couldn't put the entire url since more than three
urls in a post is not allowed ...

T2Stratman wrote:
I couldn't figure out your pics past the first three. Might be easier to use something like photobucket to host the pics and then copy them with the IMG code into your posts.

Yes they did use Velcro on the grill cloth panels...started that in the early 70's. All the staples on the grill cloth is correct as is the tailless logo with the "Made in USA" below it.

Enjoy the rebuild and do post some pics as you progress.

T2


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: information on Fender 140 (1980) needed
Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:06 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:10 pm
Posts: 5646
Location: Gateway to the West
Reviewed all the pics. Cab looks right, just naked...needs some tolex. Mojotone carries some pretty authentic tolex. The guts sure look a bit messy, but very clean and original. As for the tubes, pull em out and post the pics, I am sure Beemer will be by to tell you exactly what they are...our resident Tube Expert bar none.

Good luck with the restoration and keep us posted. If you need a list of everything needed, item wise (glue type, process, etc.,) search for some "Refurb" or "Retolex" posts and you should find some very well documented pics and verbiage.

T2

_________________
-----------------------------------------------------------
What time is it? It's Fender Time.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: information on Fender 140 (1980) needed
Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:40 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:53 pm
Posts: 15
I put the tube pics in a separate post so that more people might take a look at them.
The only problem is actually the amp tubes since the other tubes are labled.

The preamp tubes are labled "12AX7 013341/7025" made in the US.
As much as I know those are the low noise versions of the 12AX7 ? I guess, I can live with those since true NOS 7025 are quite expensive, if you can find them, in the first place.

The reverb tube is labled "7025/12AX7 SDVTEK 0205" and seems to be Russian made.
And the last (I haven't quite figured yet whether that's also a reverb tube or a rectifier tube) is a RSD ECC23 86G08.

So basically, all tubes except for the amp tubes are 12AX7 more or less.

Maybe on thing that you could shed some light on is this:

There should actually be 4x 6L6GC amp tube in there, plus 2x 7025, and 3x 12AT7 for preamp.
Just about the only thing that I know about tubes is that 12AX7 tubes which I found in the amp have a higher gain than the 12AT7. I think the ratio is something like 100:60.
Is there any way how I could determine whether the circuitry throughout the amp would be able to digest the higher gain of the 12AX7 or wether at some spot damage could be caused or, if not damage, greater wear of the components?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: information on Fender 140 (1980) needed
Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:10 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:10 pm
Posts: 5646
Location: Gateway to the West
You can most certainly use 12AX7's in your amp. A 12AX7 is essentially the same tube as a 7025. IIRC the 7025 is simply a lower gain, higher quality (milspec) tube. Changing from the 7025 to 12AX7 will cause no damage to your amp. It may make it noisier, so find good quality 12AX7s.

BTW, IIRC the ECC2 tube is a 12AT7, ECC is the European numbering scheme for pre amp tubes. A ECC3 is a 12AX7/7025 and a ECC1 is a 12AU7 equivalent.

T2

_________________
-----------------------------------------------------------
What time is it? It's Fender Time.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: information on Fender 140 (1980) needed
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:32 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:53 pm
Posts: 15
slow progress, but progress ...

filled up all the holes and ripples of the cab to give it a smooth surface before the new tolex comes on.
next step is to glaze the inside, and after that I guess it's ready for the tolex.

http://www.emerald-green.de/images/fender140_headshell_026.jpg
http://www.emerald-green.de/images/fender140_headshell_027.jpg
http://www.emerald-green.de/images/fender140_headshell_028.jpg
fender140_headshell_029.jpg
fender140_headshell_030.jpg
fender140_headshell_031.jpg
fender140_headshell_032.jpg
fender140_headshell_033.jpg
fender140_headshell_034.jpg
(pls add the remainder of the image url to the file names for the last 6 images)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: information on Fender 140 (1980) needed
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:33 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 6544
" RSD ECC23 86G08 "

RSD is an old East German tube manufacturer. They made tubes from the 1950 - early 1980's. The tubes were often relabeled with brand names Siemens, Telefunken, or Mullard.

Your tube is prolly an ECC83. Euro designation for the 12AX7.


Example of an RSD made tube:

https://www.m-ware.de/images/produkte/i ... 5rsd-0.JPG


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: