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Post subject: PT question
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:42 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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I was thinking of using this for a 6G2 build. Just wondering if anyone has any idea of the manufacturer. It came out of a Church chime amp (Maas-Rowe) from the late 50's/early 60's that had two 6V6's and a 5Y3 rectifier along with a preamp tube.

Thanks for any input.

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Post subject: Re: PT question
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:41 pm
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Looks to be a well-built piece of iron -- it might've been wise to "light-finger" the entire amp and use it as the core for your new project. I'm getting nothing from that "6653" ink-stamped on the side cover. Are there any other distinguishing numbers, perhaps embossed in the metal?

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: PT question
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:25 pm
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Nothing else stamped on it. I used the chassis and a load of other spare parts for a 5F1 with a 10" some time ago. Had to cut and weld it on the one end. (Pic below) Kind of a throw together beater, but great tone. Forgot I had this PT in a box. I have a Tweed cab for a 12" that I built that would make a good "something". A little gray piece of iron can really stir up some sleepless thinking.

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Post subject: Re: PT question
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:26 pm
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Did you happen to research the schematic for the original chime amp? That would certainly yield the tranny's operating parameters and give you a head start on a power supply.

Nice 5F1!

8)

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: PT question
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:38 pm
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Months ago I did lot's of searching, checked with Maas Rowe with no luck on a schematic. I have another that has 6550 power tubes, but it's different and going to be used in our Church with the vintage chimes after I replace some caps. It's got some grunt behind it, ear piercing clean headroom as naturally I couldn't resist plugging into it while I have the chassis out. I think I'll just build with this PT and check voltages after.

All the wire in that Champ is from a stripped old Curtis Mathes TV/stereo console, good pre tinned wire and lots of it. I also got some pretty decent preamp tubes from it. Like I said, it's got plenty of rough edges but ya gotta love a cranked tweed Champ.

Thanks for the help Arjay.


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Post subject: Re: PT question
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:48 pm
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upnorth wrote:
I was thinking of using this for a 6G2 build. Just wondering if anyone has any idea of the manufacturer. It came out of a Church chime amp (Maas-Rowe) from the late 50's/early 60's that had two 6V6's and a 5Y3 rectifier along with a preamp tube.

Thanks for any input.0

Image



I'm not sure you can use that PT as a 6G2 tranny. It doesn't appear to have a tap for the bias supply. Maybe a Deluxe 5E3 DIY?

You can place 120VAC onto the primary leads. Then, measure the VAC from end-to-end or end-to-CT, on the secondary, to get an idea of the PIV of the secondary. Figure which rectifier (prolly that 5Y3GT) and PSU rail will give you the B+ and other taps needed to get close to the Deluxe's nominal value. My bet is this tranny was made around the same time as many Class "A," push-pull amps of the 1950's. I don't think you'd need to do much tinkering with dropping resistors to use this PT.


http://bmamps.com/Schematics/fender/del ... _schem.pdf


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Post subject: Re: PT question
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:43 pm
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upnorth wrote:
All the wire in that Champ is from a stripped old Curtis Mathes TV/stereo console, good pre tinned wire and lots of it. I also got some pretty decent preamp tubes from it. Like I said, it's got plenty of rough edges but ya gotta love a cranked tweed Champ.


Waste not, want not.

I too do a lot of "harvesting".

:wink:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: PT question
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:20 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:

I'm not sure you can use that PT as a 6G2 tranny.


This is the schematic I was going by. Looks like it should work for a 6G2 or a 5E9A also.

http://schems.com/manu/fender/princeton_6g2_schem.pdf


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Post subject: Re: PT question
Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 6:05 am
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Yeah, that would work. You may need to juggle that 100k-ohm dropping resistor off the secondary side of the PT. To get the (-) VDC of the bias supply into the right ballpark.


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Post subject: Re: PT question
Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 6:48 am
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Thanks, I'll take note of that. Haven't decided which one yet. The 5E9 looks like it would be a fun build with a 12" tweed cab.


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Post subject: Re: PT question
Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 2:14 pm
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I had a chance to read the voltages on this unknown PT.

The red (high voltage winding) is 310 vac to CT, 622 vac across.

Green (filament) 6.98 vac to ground

Yellow (filament) 5.5 vac across (6.3 vac on 1 side and 1.3 vac on the other to ground? I don't get that)

I'm thinking this would at least, be safe for a 5F1 Champ build. I'm going to assume (Which can be trouble) the mA's are at least enough for a Champ with only a 12AX7' a 6V6 and a 5Y3. The Chime amp it came from had a 5Y3, two 6V6's and a 6SN7 preamp tube. I have no way of knowing what the PT's mA ratings are, so I've come to the conclusion of a 5F1, which should also give good power tube swapping options. I'm just wondering what the B+ will end up at.

Am I on the right track with this?

Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: PT question
Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 3:42 pm
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upnorth wrote:
I had a chance to read the voltages on this unknown PT.

The red (high voltage winding) is 310 vac to CT, 622 vac across.

Green (filament) 6.98 vac to ground

Yellow (filament) 5.5 vac across (6.3 vac on 1 side and 1.3 vac on the other to ground? I don't get that)

I'm thinking this would at least, be safe for a 5F1 Champ build. I'm going to assume (Which can be trouble) the mA's are at least enough for a Champ with only a 12AX7' a 6V6 and a 5Y3. The Chime amp it came from had a 5Y3, two 6V6's and a 6SN7 preamp tube. I have no way of knowing what the PT's mA ratings are, so I've come to the conclusion of a 5F1, which should also give good power tube swapping options. I'm just wondering what the B+ will end up at.

Am I on the right track with this?

Thanks.


I think so -- the voltage measurements from your windings are consistent with the chime amp's tube array. However, since the original platform was designed to run a pair of 6V6's I think you could safely build a stouter rig; something along the lines of an "enhanced" 5E3 Deluxe.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: PT question
Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 4:42 pm
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Thanks Arjay. I'd much rather build a PP 6V6 amp, but thought the high voltage winding might be too low being only 622v's.


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Post subject: Re: PT question
Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 4:59 pm
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I think the 5E3 only requires about 365 VDC for the B+ so you should be good to go.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: PT question
Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 5:33 pm
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Another 5E3 it is!!! I've got a small local sawmill that I can get more clear, locally cut white pine, kiln dried. Gotta justify the cost of that stacked dato. I've thought about covering an amp with faded denim and the old clear shellac/denatured alcohol trick but........... that might be kind of out there. Would look good with a brown leather handle though.


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