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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:11 am
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Cedar,

I have used several French made Mazda nickel plated ECC83 and gray plate Radio Technique ECC83. They are very good tubes. The tone is cleaner than the Dutch made Phillips/Miniwatt ECC83's, which is more midrange based. And the Blackburn made Mullard ECC83, which tends to be even more midrange based (the early long plates, I61, I62, I63's).

Good quiet Mazda's last forever. Unfortunately, good French made tubes are harder to find than Dutch made Philips-type tubes.

If you are seeking the ultimate clean tone, good bass 12AX7/ECC83 and cost is no issue... keep an eye out for mid 1950's-early 1960's German, Hamburg made gold pin or steel pin Valvo E83CC or Munich made Siemens/Halske E83CC.

http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Va ... /ECC83.htm

http://www.alextubefotos.gmxhome.de/Tri ... C803sb.jpg

Or the Telsa (NOT JJ) E83CC (manufactured at factory 32) or TFK ECC803S. Good ones, of any of these tubes are as hard to find as hen's teeth, these days. Most stuff on EBay are at 50% ideal emission. So caveat emptor! :D


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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:32 am
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I got to play my Vibrolux Monday night with the Mazda in V2. Very impressed!

When I have some time I'll try it in my other amps... this is one sweet tube!


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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:50 am
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Ok, maybe it's time to do a summary of some of the tubes I tried and liked, new and old...

New Production tubes:

I focused on the two "best" tubes available today.

Genalex Gold Lion 12AX7: A very nice tube, quiet, no microphonics, beautiful tone, higher gain. I did not enjoy the tube with the amp dimed, too much gain IMO, much worse with a humbucker. A Strat straight in sounds great with the volume around 6-7.

Psvane 12AX7: This is now my favorite new production 12AX7. I love the clarity and clean tone, the highs are very sweet sounding, no harshness at all. Excellent tube even dimed and humbuckers do well with this tube.

Old (NOS) tubes:

RCA: I've always been a fan of RCA tubes, both power and preamp. After trying a number of different old 12AX7 I've realized that a good RCA 12AX7 is still unbeatable, specially with a Strat. This is true for both, V2 and V4 (reverb recovery).

Telefunken: Love how smooth this tube is, I find it to be the perfect tube for humbuckers, great in both V2 and V4. Very quiet and very reliable, probably one of the best tubes out there. A little warmer than the RCA.

Raytheon 5751 (black plate): This is really as good as it gets, when it comes to 5751 tubes. I found that this tube is excellent in 6V6 amps, the tone in my DR and PR was just beautiful. A little warm, and the highs were the sweetest I've ever heard. This tube sounded great in the SR as well, in V2. I can dime the amp and the tone was perfect even with the guitar volume at 10. It did ok in my Vibrolux Reverb. I also tried it in V4 and did not really find it to be anything special in that position.

Mullard 12AX7: This is not a tube for me, it's nice sounding, but I don't think it belongs in a Fender amp. At least not for me and the tone I expect from a vintage Fender amp.

So, for a bright and clean tube, which is what the initial goal was, I'm going to have to go with the Chinese Psvane 12AX7 as the winner. A JAN-Philips 5751 got me close too.

That's it for now...


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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:27 am
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I Just might be tempted to pay $27 for a new production ax7 IF......they could delineate what makes it superior- ie: 10,000 hr rating, ect.
I'm so tired of new production tubes relying on all the stupid adjectives instead of technical details.


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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:30 am
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Lack of long-term data makes the 10,000 hour promise a bit difficult with new made tubes. In my experience, the quietest and highest testing signal tubes tend to last the longest. The new Gold Lion ECC83/B759 tests consistently in the +2000 range on my Hickok.

Only strong, ANOS or NOS US & Philips (and all its sister companies) made tubes that test this consistent. The RCA 7025 being one of the best, in terms of strength and low noise. I've pulled quite a few OEM RCA 7025 out of BF and SF amps, tested them, and found they test higher than many brand new tubes. Most in the 1500 to 2000 range.

Strong mil spec Raytheon and Tungsol signal tubes are notorious for testing off the chart.

Best testing & quietest 12AT7 types are the Valvo 6201 and the black plate Sylvania triple mica 12AT7WA. They consistently test above any new 12AT7 on the market.


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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:55 am
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That's good info.


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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:19 pm
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yomammaaho wrote:
I'm so tired of new production tubes relying on all the stupid adjectives instead of technical details.


+1!

Spurious and arbitrary bromides are for pseudo-technical types who spend too much time on line reading parochial reports from tube-mongers instead of studying the RCA Receiving Tube Manual. The latter is where quantifiable data is found.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:58 am
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yomammaaho wrote:
I Just might be tempted to pay $27 for a new production ax7 IF......they could delineate what makes it superior- ie: 10,000 hr rating, ect.
I'm so tired of new production tubes relying on all the stupid adjectives instead of technical details.


Check back in a year and I'll let you know how the new Psvane are holding up :wink:

$27 for a new production tube that might last a year, maybe more. $70-100 minimum for a good NOS that will probably last many years... up to you to decide if you want to take a risk with new production tubes and hope you get a couple years out of them. You might be able to get 2-3 new production tubes for the price of one NOS, if you can find a good one that is. Paying a premium for a NOS from a reliable seller is the only way to go IMO, and NOS prices keep going up!

I'll always go for NOS first, if I have any or if I can afford it, but I'm glad there's some new production tubes available today that are worth spending a little extra on in order to get some sweet tones out of them, are quiet, test strong, and are not microphonic. We'll see how reliable they are... based on what Bimmer said I don't see why they wouldn't be.


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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:56 am
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I hope those psvane tubes are good.
Now...... If a tube co. offers a 1 yr. Warranty on its tube holding spec output, I would buy one for $50 or more.....no problem.


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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:58 am
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I've heard very good things about Grant Fidelity/PSVANE. The products seem consistently good. Ppl seem to like dealing with one person (Rachel) who handles emails about their tubes.


I have a pair, which has not gone into an amp, yet. Still test driving the GL ECC83/B759. So far so good, with the Gold Lions. Also, using GL 12AU7 in my headphone amp. Nice quiet, neutral tone. Much better than the EH or JJ 12AU7's, IMHO.

Funny all the hoo-haw these days over "selected" tubes. When you consider a new RCA 7025 used to cost $1.25 and could be bought at the local drug store. Oh, to have a way-back machine. :mrgreen:


http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue51/shuguang.htm


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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:01 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Oh, to have a way-back machine. :mrgreen:


+1

:wink:

What's your initial impression of the GL ECC83, Steve?

I put one in my '64 Vibroverb's V2 position and thus far, I like the job it's doing. It seems to be quite articulate and well-balanced between loafing (cleans) and grunting (compressed OD tones). I do find that I'm using that channel's bright switch more than when I had an NOS GE 5751 there.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:33 pm
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I like the new GL 12AX7/ECC83. Neutral tone. Very potent tube. Low noise. Well see about the longevity.


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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:50 pm
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I have high expectations for it......it has gold-plated pins!

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:40 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
I have high expectations for it......it has gold-plated pins!

:mrgreen:

Arjay

That was one of the main reason why I bought some :mrgreen:

Bimmer, interested to hear your opinion of the Psvane and how they compare to the GL, once you get to try 'em. Did you notice that the GL gets a little too dirty at loud volumes? I'm not sure if the extra gain, but that's really the only thing I didn't like about the GL. However, at "normal" volumes it is really one beautiful sounding tube. I also like this tube in V4.


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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:46 pm
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Personally I like that "dirt", at least in my Vibroverb. It does seem to get a skosh "over-grungy" when driving the amp with humbuckers though. I'm not sure that I like that but I so seldomly play a Les Paul anymore that it's really not a factor for me.

Arjay

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