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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:20 am
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shimmilou wrote:
Frankly, there is a bit of romanticizing about the "better" older tubes, NOS or not. TV repairmen did quite well replacing tubes back in the day. There was a reason for having tube testers in every corner store, and it wasn't because the tubes lasted for a long time. :wink:

I see no reason that new production tubes can't last for decades. Many of the new production tubes are made by the same companies that have been producing them for a very, very long time. In fact, Russia had a vested interest in good quality mil-spec tubes long after the US quit making them.


I only speak from my own experience... Almost every new production tube I've used has failed within a year of use, some within a few months. This includes both preamp and power tubes. I can't say the same about older tubes, I've only had two preamp tubes go bad, no power tubes. The tubes were probably 40+ year old and original to the amp, that's a lot of mileage! And I push the heck out of my amps, I bias them hot and only play with the volume at 6 or higher. So that might explain why the newer tubes can't handle the abuse :mrgreen:

Hoping the new tubes I just got would change that...


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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:27 am
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Yes, there's a bit of it right there. You really have no idea how many hours are on the older tubes, nor whether or not they are the original tubes to the amp, unless you bought the amp new and never changed tubes. How many tubes have you used in your whole life? A dozen, two dozen? You get the idea. Not discounting your experience, just that, on the whole the fact is that we have much better means of spreading the news now than back in "the good old days".

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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:26 am
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shimmilou wrote:
Yes, there's a bit of it right there. You really have no idea how many hours are on the older tubes, nor whether or not they are the original tubes to the amp, unless you bought the amp new and never changed tubes. How many tubes have you used in your whole life? A dozen, two dozen? You get the idea. Not discounting your experience, just that, on the whole the fact is that we have much better means of spreading the news now than back in "the good old days".


+1

Re contemporary tubes, I've had good ones and I've had bad ones. The GZ34/5AR4 in my DRRI is the original Russian-made GT installed at the factory. The amp's played at least 500 gigs and probably a like number of rehearsals, jams, open-mic nights, plus some studio work. It was built in 1994.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:15 am
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There's no denying that, on average, older tubes will outlast new production tubes. This is not just my experience, many musician friends who have older amps, some bought new, still have the original tubes in 'em. I'm talking about tubes being made today, or the past few years... in the 90s my original Blues Deluxe, which was my only amp back then and played every day and gigged regularly, had its original tubes until I got rid of it 12 years later. And I still have the original 6L6 from that amp, I believe they're Sovtek. But the majority of the new tubes I've used in the past few years either got too microphonic, developed a nasty rattle, or just failed miserably.

The good news is that there are some nice tubes still being made today that sound great, I just hope reliability is better than what I've experienced recently... I will be pushing the heck out of the GL and Psvane tubes I just got and will let you know how they do :)


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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 12:25 pm
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cedarblues wrote:
There's no denying that, on average, older tubes will outlast new production tubes. This is not just my experience, many musician friends who have older amps, some bought new, still have the original tubes in 'em. I'm talking about tubes being made today, or the past few years... in the 90s my original Blues Deluxe, which was my only amp back then and played every day and gigged regularly, had its original tubes until I got rid of it 12 years later. And I still have the original 6L6 from that amp, I believe they're Sovtek. But the majority of the new tubes I've used in the past few years either got too microphonic, developed a nasty rattle, or just failed miserably.

The good news is that there are some nice tubes still being made today that sound great, I just hope reliability is better than what I've experienced recently... I will be pushing the heck out of the GL and Psvane tubes I just got and will let you know how they do :)


I had a GL KT-66 die well before it's time and have had many problems with Russian tubes lately. I don't think their quality is what it used to be. I've given up on Tung Sol 12ax7's. The consistency of those tubes is horrible. I shell out $ for NOS 12ax7's. If I get a crappy tube, I can send it back. I haven't had to.


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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 10:31 pm
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Krankster wrote:
cedarblues wrote:
There's no denying that, on average, older tubes will outlast new production tubes. This is not just my experience, many musician friends who have older amps, some bought new, still have the original tubes in 'em. I'm talking about tubes being made today, or the past few years... in the 90s my original Blues Deluxe, which was my only amp back then and played every day and gigged regularly, had its original tubes until I got rid of it 12 years later. And I still have the original 6L6 from that amp, I believe they're Sovtek. But the majority of the new tubes I've used in the past few years either got too microphonic, developed a nasty rattle, or just failed miserably.

The good news is that there are some nice tubes still being made today that sound great, I just hope reliability is better than what I've experienced recently... I will be pushing the heck out of the GL and Psvane tubes I just got and will let you know how they do :)


I had a GL KT-66 die well before it's time and have had many problems with Russian tubes lately. I don't think their quality is what it used to be. I've given up on Tung Sol 12ax7's. The consistency of those tubes is horrible. I shell out $ for NOS 12ax7's. If I get a crappy tube, I can send it back. I haven't had to.


I wanted to try TS 12ax7's

This is what happened. :shock:

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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 2:36 am
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Nikola, I've seen this in several posts on other tube amp sites. The Tungsol RI 12AX7 (Russian) seem to have issues with the seal on the pins and the bottom of the glass (entry point). Stress under heat expansion can lead to either cracks at these points or stress fractures in other parts of the bottle.

I'm not sure if New Sensor has addressed this problem with newer productions. But, other boards post that if you have an amp with new Chinese made 9-pin sockets (the ones that are white and very tight) --- do not use the TSRI 12AX7.

You'll notice that the newer made Russian 12AX7's (like the Gold Lion B759/ECC83) has gone to the traditional red seals on these pin entry points. These tube don't seem to suffer from leakage issues like the TSRI.

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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 6:10 pm
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What I like about both the Gold Lion and Psvane is how quiet they are and no microphonics compared to most new preamp tubes I've tried. So yes, you do pay a premium but it's worth it IMO.

A little update on my tube testing... I've pretty much found a home for each tube in one of my amps :)

In my Vibrolux I could not get the clarity and brightness I was looking for with the sweet Jensens I had in there. They are VERY sweet and rich sounding, but I had to replace them cuz I believe I might've damaged one of them. So in went the WGS G10C which I've tried in this amp before, and I got the exact tone I was after using the GL tube in V2. So speakers played a bigger part in this amp.

The Psvane found a perfect home in my Deluxe Reverb, for now...

The SR got the 50s Sylvania BP 12AX7 in V2 and the RCA JRC 12AX7 in V4, an unbelievable combo in that amp! The Sylvania was nothing special in the Vibrolux and the output was too low, but it worked out great in the SR.

I've also tried the Gold Brand Sylvania 5751 and did not really care much for the tone in the SR or the VLR. It was extremely quiet and clean, but no character and just too "plain". When I have time I'll try it in my 6V6 amps and see how it goes.

Still no Raytheon 5751...


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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 11:10 am
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What a fantastic thread, guys!

Not only have I learned so much, changed my way of thinking, but I've stayed up way past my bedtime. I'm gonna have to reread this tomorrow after I get off work.

Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 8:27 pm
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Here's a quick update... finally got some Raytheon tubes!

Image

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Won a pair off ebay, even though I hate buying tubes there cause you never know what you're going to get. I tried them for a few mins and these are some very nice tubes! I'll have a chance to hear 'em more over the weekend. They're very sweet sounding, but they're also kinda warm sounding, not exactly what I was looking for. I found them much sweeter sounding than the Gold Brand Sylvania 5751 I recently tried. I have a feeling running a pair of these in V1 and V2 with my 345 is going to be very heavenly :D

I've never tried running a 5751 in V4, is that not recommended?


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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 3:36 am
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Cedar, V4 of which amp? You can put 5751 into any socket that runs 12AX7/7025 OEM.

Let that Raytheon break-in a bit, then tell me how you like it. Windmill getters last forever.


Last edited by BMW2002Ti on Sat May 31, 2014 5:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 4:55 am
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Sorry, most of my amps are two channel BF/SF amps, so that would be the reverb recovery/second gain stage. I'm assuming it'll also affect the reverb?


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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 5:16 am
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Try it and see hwo it affects the tone.


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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 5:40 am
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I plan on it! :mrgreen:

Do they look like the real thing? Wasn't sure if the CK 5751 is the same as the JAN-CRP... the other tube does say JAN-CRP on it, and both are from the 60s.

Both tubes look used but test strong, do they still need break-in?


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Post subject: Re: 12AX7/7025 Tubes
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:22 pm
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Bimmer, any experience with this beautiful tube?

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