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Post subject: Never thought I'd do it
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:04 pm
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Today I actually pulled the vintage 61 Jensen P12Q out of my 5E3 and replaced it with a Weber 12A125A. I'd been kind of struggling with my 5E3 for a while. It sounded good, but this is such a revered amp and I just wasn't feeling the tone. Took a shot on another speaker and it's definitely what it needed. The vintage P12Q is supposed to be one of the top speakers for the 5E3 but the Weber sounds (and I never thought I'd use this word to describe tone) sweeter and more chimey. It's more open and natural sounding.

I don't know if the Jensen was just getting tired with age - after all it is a mechanical component. It's still got a ton of volume and no harshness.

So kudos to Weber for once again wowing me with their speakers. BTW, they broke in the speaker before shipping with no extra charge, so great service there too.

:D

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Post subject: Re: Never thought I'd do it
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:07 pm
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Sounds like the original P12Q is ready for a re-cone......

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Never thought I'd do it
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:12 pm
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It's possible. Visually it's in excellent shape. No weird noises or anything. LOTS of volume out of it.

If I had a vintage Deluxe then I'd be much more inclined to keep the Jensen and possibly recone it. However, my 5E3 is a kit so I really need to go with what sounds best to my ears and my wallet.

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Post subject: Re: Never thought I'd do it
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:05 pm
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In my neck of the woods it costs about $70 to re-cone a vintage P12Q with quality OEM-spec parts -- less than half the cost of a Weber.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Never thought I'd do it
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:28 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Sounds like the original P12Q is ready for a re-cone......

Arjay



For resale value of the amp is it not better to keep and stock the original P12Q and use the Weber ? IMO reconning may lower the value .


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Post subject: Re: Never thought I'd do it
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:59 am
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stratele52 wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
Sounds like the original P12Q is ready for a re-cone......

Arjay



For resale value of the amp is it not better to keep and stock the original P12Q and use the Weber ? IMO reconning may lower the value .


A broken speaker is nothing more than a broken speaker.

It's only value is as a rebuildable carcass.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Never thought I'd do it
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:02 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
stratele52 wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
Sounds like the original P12Q is ready for a re-cone......

Arjay



For resale value of the amp is it not better to keep and stock the original P12Q and use the Weber ? IMO reconning may lower the value .


A broken speaker is nothing more than a broken speaker.

It's only value is as a rebuildable carcass.

Arjay



First we don't know if this P12Q need a rebuilt . Could the Weber speaker is just better ?

I know few serious collector who will pay more for a original Jensen no matter what it sound and they can choose where for a rebuilt IF they wish to rebuilt.

And we must not forget speaker rebuilder are not the same .


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Post subject: Re: Never thought I'd do it
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:50 pm
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Powdered Toast Man wrote:
…..my 5E3 is a kit


Okay - so the speaker has no value associated with the amp since its a kit. So I think you have to look at the speaker as a stand alone item.

IMHO - and its very humble :oops: and others might feel very strongly the other way - reconing the speaker should not hurt the value of the speaker. The value is not in the paper cone, but in the magnet. That is as long as the speaker is pre-1962ish.

If the speaker is pre-1962, then its the old formula AlNiCo type. Due to a nuclear regulitory rules set in place (1962ish), the AlNiCo formula was changed and the Colbalt was subbed with a differrent metal, but they kept the 'CO' elemental symbol for colbalt (al'ni'CO) in the name to not draw attention to the change of magnets component materials. This is why the 1956 Jensens are so revered, they had the old formula AlNiCo.

If its post-1962, you could still recone it and someone looking for a period correct speaker for their vintage amp would probably be happy to have it.


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Post subject: Re: Never thought I'd do it
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:33 pm
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As long as the reconing job is done correctly with a good kit --- you'll be ok. I've had a ton of JBL instrument and hi-fi speakers redone, and the speakers did not lose value. You have to do it with those foam surround speakers. As the foam disintegrates after ten-15 years of exposure to smog.

I sold a couple of amps with reconed Jensens and I think they got as good if not better value, due to the new cones/VC's. At the time I used LA Speakers (owner is retired... :cry: ). Well known speaker tech in Hollyweird.


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Post subject: Re: Never thought I'd do it
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:24 pm
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I don't know if it needs a recone or not. The speaker sounds healthy and has a lot of volume with no buzz, rattle, or fart. It's just that the new Weber simply sounds better to my ear. The kit came with a reissue C12N. The 1961 P12Q sounded much better than that one. Now the 12A125A sounds even better than the P12Q.

As for the value of the amp, well, it's a home built kit so these don't really carry much resale value beyond the price of the kit regardless of what speaker is in it.

Quote:
In my neck of the woods it costs about $70 to re-cone a vintage P12Q with quality OEM-spec parts -- less than half the cost of a Weber.

Arjay


It'd be a lot more pricy in my neck of the woods. No one locally does it, so that would necessitate shipping across the border to the USA to a shop. Once you factor in the cost of mailing it plus the return trip I might as well just buy a new speaker.

I've put it up for sale locally. No bites yet, but I am asking pretty high. I'm in no rush. It'll make someone with a vintage amp happy to get a period spec part.

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Post subject: Re: Never thought I'd do it
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:24 pm
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Toast Man, which brand of kit did you build ? And what are your views on that project ? Thanks, Art

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Post subject: Re: Never thought I'd do it
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:07 pm
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aclempoppi wrote:
Toast Man, which brand of kit did you build ? And what are your views on that project ? Thanks, Art


Mission Amps 5E3. Excellent kit and fun project. You don't need to be technically minded, but you do have to be able to problem solve on your own.

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Post subject: Re: Never thought I'd do it
Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:36 am
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phansford wrote:
Powdered Toast Man wrote:
…..my 5E3 is a kit


Okay - so the speaker has no value associated with the amp since its a kit. So I think you have to look at the speaker as a stand alone item.



Oups I did not read that before . Forget what I wrote. :oops:


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Post subject: Re: Never thought I'd do it
Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:35 pm
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Powdered Toast Man wrote:
I don't know if it needs a recone or not. The speaker sounds healthy and has a lot of volume with no buzz, rattle, or fart. It's just that the new Weber simply sounds better to my ear. The kit came with a reissue C12N. The 1961 P12Q sounded much better than that one. Now the 12A125A sounds even better than the P12Q.


The 12A125 is one of Weber's best speakers. IMHO. I've put them into five DRRI and three or four SF or BF DR. Not one of the owners has complained. And they sound better with age. I have old Ted Weber made P12R and Q's made in the late 1980's that sound as fine vintage as any speaker. Just use what you have. Enjoy! :mrgreen:


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